<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	xmlns:itunes="http://www.itunes.com/dtds/podcast-1.0.dtd"
xmlns:rawvoice="http://www.rawvoice.com/rawvoiceRssModule/"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Pitching the 2009 Mets</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/pitching-the-2009-mets/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/pitching-the-2009-mets/</link>
	<description>Daily baseball statistical analysis and commentary</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 20:36:47 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: ScottD</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/pitching-the-2009-mets/#comment-58427</link>
		<dc:creator>ScottD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2009 05:35:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=2008#comment-58427</guid>
		<description>In both this and the comparison between the Mets and Phillies, there is one consideration missing. The theory that young pitchers who throw more than 30 innings over their career highs in a given season are likely to have injury/ineffectiveness problems the next season. Recent history is full of examples, but going into last season Kyle Kendrick, Tom Gorzelanny, Dustin McGowan, Fausto Carmona, Ubaldo Jimenez, Yovanny Gallardo and Brian Bannister all fit the prfile and all had the requisite struggles in one area or another. Going into 2009, Cole Hamels and Mike Pelfrey are both members of this group. I would expect both to see some trouble in 2009. We could go more deeply into this, but the evidence is there to support the theory quite well. This is one place where strict numbers are not enough to make a good projection as one needs to look at some context. In the case of both Pelfrey and Hamels the relevant context is 2008&#039;s overuse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In both this and the comparison between the Mets and Phillies, there is one consideration missing. The theory that young pitchers who throw more than 30 innings over their career highs in a given season are likely to have injury/ineffectiveness problems the next season. Recent history is full of examples, but going into last season Kyle Kendrick, Tom Gorzelanny, Dustin McGowan, Fausto Carmona, Ubaldo Jimenez, Yovanny Gallardo and Brian Bannister all fit the prfile and all had the requisite struggles in one area or another. Going into 2009, Cole Hamels and Mike Pelfrey are both members of this group. I would expect both to see some trouble in 2009. We could go more deeply into this, but the evidence is there to support the theory quite well. This is one place where strict numbers are not enough to make a good projection as one needs to look at some context. In the case of both Pelfrey and Hamels the relevant context is 2008&#8242;s overuse.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Eric Seidman</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/pitching-the-2009-mets/#comment-58327</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Seidman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2008 23:39:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=2008#comment-58327</guid>
		<description>Sam, our projections differ in a few areas.  Not sure how you arrived at your numbers for several players or what systems you used, but I like to use several different systems and weight them based on past reliability and such.  I also include Derek Lowe in my projections and have Schneider as the starter, not Castro.

I also have Jeremy Reed and Fernando Tatis on the bench, as well as Castro.  Benches don&#039;t add a ton and it isn&#039;t as if this would vastly shift the projections.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sam, our projections differ in a few areas.  Not sure how you arrived at your numbers for several players or what systems you used, but I like to use several different systems and weight them based on past reliability and such.  I also include Derek Lowe in my projections and have Schneider as the starter, not Castro.</p>
<p>I also have Jeremy Reed and Fernando Tatis on the bench, as well as Castro.  Benches don&#8217;t add a ton and it isn&#8217;t as if this would vastly shift the projections.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sam</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/pitching-the-2009-mets/#comment-58326</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2008 23:35:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=2008#comment-58326</guid>
		<description>We have no bench yet (we&#039;ve been linked to Alex Cora), but here are my projections for reference: http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p0f4isoUgbTh93DuTmbcNIA</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We have no bench yet (we&#8217;ve been linked to Alex Cora), but here are my projections for reference: <a href="http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p0f4isoUgbTh93DuTmbcNIA" rel="nofollow">http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p0f4isoUgbTh93DuTmbcNIA</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: AE</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/pitching-the-2009-mets/#comment-58319</link>
		<dc:creator>AE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2008 22:10:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=2008#comment-58319</guid>
		<description>eric,

i explain my (very simple) method poorly here:
http://eightoclockthelightsareonatshea.blogspot.com/2008/12/im-completely-replaceableeven-though-i.html
(please note, it&#039;s not a sports blog, although sometimes i blog about sports sometimes.)

anyway, i&#039;ve updated my numbers quite a bit since then and will probably have a more in depth post up this weekend with numbers that i think are legit with legit playing time forecasts.  i will post both my mets and phillies projections. 

i have the mets winning 86 games right now (without lowe) and the phillies winning 88.  i&#039;m curious to see your numbers as well...looking forward to your post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>eric,</p>
<p>i explain my (very simple) method poorly here:<br />
<a href="http://eightoclockthelightsareonatshea.blogspot.com/2008/12/im-completely-replaceableeven-though-i.html" rel="nofollow">http://eightoclockthelightsareonatshea.blogspot.com/2008/12/im-completely-replaceableeven-though-i.html</a><br />
(please note, it&#8217;s not a sports blog, although sometimes i blog about sports sometimes.)</p>
<p>anyway, i&#8217;ve updated my numbers quite a bit since then and will probably have a more in depth post up this weekend with numbers that i think are legit with legit playing time forecasts.  i will post both my mets and phillies projections. </p>
<p>i have the mets winning 86 games right now (without lowe) and the phillies winning 88.  i&#8217;m curious to see your numbers as well&#8230;looking forward to your post.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Eric Seidman</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/pitching-the-2009-mets/#comment-58306</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Seidman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2008 20:03:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=2008#comment-58306</guid>
		<description>AE, thanks, glad to see Mets and Phillies fans CAN get along!  I&#039;m posting tonight my projections for each team.  They slightly differ from yours, but just ever so slightly.  I&#039;m going to include Lowe in the mix for the Mets because I just don&#039;t see him signing elsewhere.  The tough part for the Mets is that their bench doesn&#039;t seem to be complete.  Tatis and Reed will be there, so will Castro.  After that, I don&#039;t see any infielders.  I just see Marlon Anderson and Angel Pagan, and Nick Evans as well, all of whom are outfielders.  Benches don&#039;t generally add a ton of wins to a team so it is a miniscule differential, but after I post tonight, I&#039;d be very curious to see how you arrived at your numbers, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AE, thanks, glad to see Mets and Phillies fans CAN get along!  I&#8217;m posting tonight my projections for each team.  They slightly differ from yours, but just ever so slightly.  I&#8217;m going to include Lowe in the mix for the Mets because I just don&#8217;t see him signing elsewhere.  The tough part for the Mets is that their bench doesn&#8217;t seem to be complete.  Tatis and Reed will be there, so will Castro.  After that, I don&#8217;t see any infielders.  I just see Marlon Anderson and Angel Pagan, and Nick Evans as well, all of whom are outfielders.  Benches don&#8217;t generally add a ton of wins to a team so it is a miniscule differential, but after I post tonight, I&#8217;d be very curious to see how you arrived at your numbers, too.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: AE</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/pitching-the-2009-mets/#comment-58305</link>
		<dc:creator>AE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2008 19:59:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=2008#comment-58305</guid>
		<description>eric, first off, big fan of your work and secondly, your analysis is usually right on the money (at least when i compare it to my own findings and conclusions)...and as a mets fan, i have no qualms saying it.

right now i have the phillies 2 wins up on the mets heading into 2009.  if it comes to be, my projections are for lowe to give the mets a 3 win bounce.  so on paper, that means pretty much means the mets and phillies are just about even.  this should, at the very least, be a very exciting season to look forward to for mets and phillies fans.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>eric, first off, big fan of your work and secondly, your analysis is usually right on the money (at least when i compare it to my own findings and conclusions)&#8230;and as a mets fan, i have no qualms saying it.</p>
<p>right now i have the phillies 2 wins up on the mets heading into 2009.  if it comes to be, my projections are for lowe to give the mets a 3 win bounce.  so on paper, that means pretty much means the mets and phillies are just about even.  this should, at the very least, be a very exciting season to look forward to for mets and phillies fans.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: acerimusdux</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/pitching-the-2009-mets/#comment-58304</link>
		<dc:creator>acerimusdux</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2008 19:57:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=2008#comment-58304</guid>
		<description>Oliver Perez&#039;s controllable skills certainly do project as well as Wolf&#039;s. His BB, SO, and HR rates don&#039;t. But, those aren&#039;t really the *only* controllable skills. They&#039;re just the easiest to quantify.

I&#039;m not arguing against the value of FIP here, just that it isn&#039;t always the *only* thing to look at. In this case, we also have one guy who is 32 years old next year, whose best years and stuff are likely behind him, and whose actual results haven&#039;t been that good since 2003, and another guy who is only 27 next year, who was still averaging 91.2 mph on his fastball, and getting reasonable results.

FIP certainly is generally more reliable than relying only on ERA. But best results will usually come from considering some combination of both, as well as external factors and observation.  Most often, I think you would weight FIP more heavily.  But I commented on this case mainly because I think it&#039;s one of the exceptions. This is one where I think the monkey will beat the machine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oliver Perez&#8217;s controllable skills certainly do project as well as Wolf&#8217;s. His BB, SO, and HR rates don&#8217;t. But, those aren&#8217;t really the *only* controllable skills. They&#8217;re just the easiest to quantify.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not arguing against the value of FIP here, just that it isn&#8217;t always the *only* thing to look at. In this case, we also have one guy who is 32 years old next year, whose best years and stuff are likely behind him, and whose actual results haven&#8217;t been that good since 2003, and another guy who is only 27 next year, who was still averaging 91.2 mph on his fastball, and getting reasonable results.</p>
<p>FIP certainly is generally more reliable than relying only on ERA. But best results will usually come from considering some combination of both, as well as external factors and observation.  Most often, I think you would weight FIP more heavily.  But I commented on this case mainly because I think it&#8217;s one of the exceptions. This is one where I think the monkey will beat the machine.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Eric Seidman</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/pitching-the-2009-mets/#comment-58296</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Seidman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2008 17:04:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=2008#comment-58296</guid>
		<description>Matt, I&#039;ll be running the official numbers later on these two teams and will let you know what I get.  I would highly suggest using a few different systems as opposed to one to get the overall results, and I&#039;m curious to know how the bullpens are evaluated in the projections you&#039;ve seen.  I cannot imagine that the Phillies are projected to be 8 wins better than the Mets.  If we assume they sign Lowe, which they are on the verge of doing, their rotation projects to be +2.5 wins better than the Phillies.

If the Mets bullpen has a +0.5 win advantage now, that means the Phillies lineup would have to be +11 wins better than the Mets for +8 wins to come to fruition.  I can&#039;t see that happening.

These teams are much closer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt, I&#8217;ll be running the official numbers later on these two teams and will let you know what I get.  I would highly suggest using a few different systems as opposed to one to get the overall results, and I&#8217;m curious to know how the bullpens are evaluated in the projections you&#8217;ve seen.  I cannot imagine that the Phillies are projected to be 8 wins better than the Mets.  If we assume they sign Lowe, which they are on the verge of doing, their rotation projects to be +2.5 wins better than the Phillies.</p>
<p>If the Mets bullpen has a +0.5 win advantage now, that means the Phillies lineup would have to be +11 wins better than the Mets for +8 wins to come to fruition.  I can&#8217;t see that happening.</p>
<p>These teams are much closer.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Eric Seidman</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/pitching-the-2009-mets/#comment-58292</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Seidman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2008 16:44:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=2008#comment-58292</guid>
		<description>The point is that ERA is much more prone to fluctuations due to factors like you mentioned as well as defense.  The Mets had one of the top defenses last year and the year prior via several defensive metrics.  This is why we speculated that Javy Vazquez would&#039;ve looked great for the Mets.

Perez&#039;s controllable skills do not project as favorably as Wolf&#039;s.  Could Perez prove to be better than Wolf?  Sure.  But if you put Wolf&#039;s controllable skills in front of the Mets defense, as opposed to the ones he played for recently, you might be surprised to see a very similar, if not better, pitcher.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The point is that ERA is much more prone to fluctuations due to factors like you mentioned as well as defense.  The Mets had one of the top defenses last year and the year prior via several defensive metrics.  This is why we speculated that Javy Vazquez would&#8217;ve looked great for the Mets.</p>
<p>Perez&#8217;s controllable skills do not project as favorably as Wolf&#8217;s.  Could Perez prove to be better than Wolf?  Sure.  But if you put Wolf&#8217;s controllable skills in front of the Mets defense, as opposed to the ones he played for recently, you might be surprised to see a very similar, if not better, pitcher.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: acerimusdux</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/pitching-the-2009-mets/#comment-58281</link>
		<dc:creator>acerimusdux</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2008 10:45:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=2008#comment-58281</guid>
		<description>Does anyone really believe that Randy Wolf is better than Oliver Perez right now? Those projections seem to me to be putting a it too much emphasis on FIP type stats without enough weight to actual performance. 

Over the last two seasons, Wolf has actually had  ERA+ of 97 and 93, while Perez has been at 120 and 100. Yes, Perez has had the benefit of being an extreme flyball pitcher, in a reasonably neutral park with some great outfield defense behind him. Maybe he&#039;s not as good as the raw numbers suggest. But he also has some plus stuff that probably contributes to keeping BABIP a bit on the low side.

This is one where I&#039;d guess Marcel ends up closer than Chone. It&#039;s not a big difference, maybe, but I&#039;d guess Olie for the Mets next year would again supply an ERA around 4.25, while Wolf I would expect more around 4.45.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does anyone really believe that Randy Wolf is better than Oliver Perez right now? Those projections seem to me to be putting a it too much emphasis on FIP type stats without enough weight to actual performance. </p>
<p>Over the last two seasons, Wolf has actually had  ERA+ of 97 and 93, while Perez has been at 120 and 100. Yes, Perez has had the benefit of being an extreme flyball pitcher, in a reasonably neutral park with some great outfield defense behind him. Maybe he&#8217;s not as good as the raw numbers suggest. But he also has some plus stuff that probably contributes to keeping BABIP a bit on the low side.</p>
<p>This is one where I&#8217;d guess Marcel ends up closer than Chone. It&#8217;s not a big difference, maybe, but I&#8217;d guess Olie for the Mets next year would again supply an ERA around 4.25, while Wolf I would expect more around 4.45.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

