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	<title>Comments on: Potential New-Look Giants O</title>
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	<description>Daily baseball statistical analysis and commentary</description>
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		<title>By: obsessivegiantscompulsive</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/potential-new-look-giants-o/#comment-55593</link>
		<dc:creator>obsessivegiantscompulsive</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 17:38:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=1512#comment-55593</guid>
		<description>Ishikawa, as people have noted, have been suspect for a couple of years now, but was one of the top prospects not too many years ago.  If you take his MLE for 2008 in the minors, according to the minor league splits website, his MLE would be .252/.331/.458/.789, which is not that far away from what he hit in the majors, .274/.337/.432/.769.  

I understand Watcher&#039;s need to see two years and that&#039;s why I&#039;ve been hoping he gets to start in 2009.  But I think he&#039;s finally turned the corner, you don&#039;t suddenly go from not having not much of a clue in terms of striking out previously and improve greatly in one season without there being substantial improvement.

The main question is whether he&#039;s only platoon material or if he can develop enough to hit against LHP.  If he can bomb them out regularly against RHP - and I think he has the power to follow in Bonds&#039;s splash-steps - he could start at 1B like Snow did, as he didn&#039;t hit that much against LHP either.

And for us folks new to this stuff, 20 wins above is equal to 80 wins, meaning 60 wins is replacement level?  Where can I read up on this stuff?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ishikawa, as people have noted, have been suspect for a couple of years now, but was one of the top prospects not too many years ago.  If you take his MLE for 2008 in the minors, according to the minor league splits website, his MLE would be .252/.331/.458/.789, which is not that far away from what he hit in the majors, .274/.337/.432/.769.  </p>
<p>I understand Watcher&#8217;s need to see two years and that&#8217;s why I&#8217;ve been hoping he gets to start in 2009.  But I think he&#8217;s finally turned the corner, you don&#8217;t suddenly go from not having not much of a clue in terms of striking out previously and improve greatly in one season without there being substantial improvement.</p>
<p>The main question is whether he&#8217;s only platoon material or if he can develop enough to hit against LHP.  If he can bomb them out regularly against RHP &#8211; and I think he has the power to follow in Bonds&#8217;s splash-steps &#8211; he could start at 1B like Snow did, as he didn&#8217;t hit that much against LHP either.</p>
<p>And for us folks new to this stuff, 20 wins above is equal to 80 wins, meaning 60 wins is replacement level?  Where can I read up on this stuff?</p>
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		<title>By: Connor</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/potential-new-look-giants-o/#comment-55415</link>
		<dc:creator>Connor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Dec 2008 04:23:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=1512#comment-55415</guid>
		<description>I do hope that your predictions are correct because almost certainly that means a division title, Playoffs Baby! 8D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do hope that your predictions are correct because almost certainly that means a division title, Playoffs Baby! 8D</p>
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		<title>By: ebc</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/potential-new-look-giants-o/#comment-55278</link>
		<dc:creator>ebc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 21:32:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=1512#comment-55278</guid>
		<description>Is there a rule of thumb for how outfielders convert to first base? Of course every player has different skills, but it would be nice to know what happens to outfielders as a group when they make the switch. Does a -20 outfielder typically become a -20 first baseman? -10? -5?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is there a rule of thumb for how outfielders convert to first base? Of course every player has different skills, but it would be nice to know what happens to outfielders as a group when they make the switch. Does a -20 outfielder typically become a -20 first baseman? -10? -5?</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Seidman</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/potential-new-look-giants-o/#comment-55274</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Seidman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 20:50:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=1512#comment-55274</guid>
		<description>Ishi/Phelps won&#039;t approach Dunn&#039;s offense, but we don&#039;t know how bad of a 1B Dunn is.  He likely isn&#039;t going to be average or above average, but is he so bad that he is a win below average?  1.5 wins below average?  In the limited stats he has at 1B over the last couple of seasons he&#039;s been around -1 to -4 plays below average, but then again it&#039;s such a small sample.  I gave him a conservative -6, meaning he would be about a half-win below average at 1B.  In LF, he would be MUCH worse, but you have Lewis there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ishi/Phelps won&#8217;t approach Dunn&#8217;s offense, but we don&#8217;t know how bad of a 1B Dunn is.  He likely isn&#8217;t going to be average or above average, but is he so bad that he is a win below average?  1.5 wins below average?  In the limited stats he has at 1B over the last couple of seasons he&#8217;s been around -1 to -4 plays below average, but then again it&#8217;s such a small sample.  I gave him a conservative -6, meaning he would be about a half-win below average at 1B.  In LF, he would be MUCH worse, but you have Lewis there.</p>
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		<title>By: Watcher</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/potential-new-look-giants-o/#comment-55272</link>
		<dc:creator>Watcher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 19:38:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=1512#comment-55272</guid>
		<description>Thanks Eric.

Ishikawa &quot;figured some things out&quot; last season, for sure.  And he&#039;s got the potential to be a plus defender at first, but I need to see two strong back-to-back seasons out of him before I give him the seal of approval.

I don&#039;t think the Ishikawa/Phelps platoon can approach the potential of Adam Dunn offensively, though the defensive adjustment might make it more of a wash.  Dunn has the power that could work in any ballpark, even Mays.

Sandoval seems to be at least a bit of a project whereever you&#039;re going to put him, but appears to have the bat to play almost anywhere.  Considering the holes on both corners for San Francisco, I&#039;d say you get the best 1B or 3B you can find, and put him at the other spot.  Obviously if Posey had not fallen to the Giants in the draft, Sandoval would be the heir apparent to Molina, but now if they think Posey can stick behind the plate, its better to get a head start on developing Pablito elsewhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Eric.</p>
<p>Ishikawa &#8220;figured some things out&#8221; last season, for sure.  And he&#8217;s got the potential to be a plus defender at first, but I need to see two strong back-to-back seasons out of him before I give him the seal of approval.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think the Ishikawa/Phelps platoon can approach the potential of Adam Dunn offensively, though the defensive adjustment might make it more of a wash.  Dunn has the power that could work in any ballpark, even Mays.</p>
<p>Sandoval seems to be at least a bit of a project whereever you&#8217;re going to put him, but appears to have the bat to play almost anywhere.  Considering the holes on both corners for San Francisco, I&#8217;d say you get the best 1B or 3B you can find, and put him at the other spot.  Obviously if Posey had not fallen to the Giants in the draft, Sandoval would be the heir apparent to Molina, but now if they think Posey can stick behind the plate, its better to get a head start on developing Pablito elsewhere.</p>
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		<title>By: ebc</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/potential-new-look-giants-o/#comment-55267</link>
		<dc:creator>ebc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 18:35:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=1512#comment-55267</guid>
		<description>Ishikawa&#039;s no top prospect; he&#039;s a longshot to develop to &quot;average.&quot; But he does have a good glove, and both he and Phelps have big platoon splits, so they&#039;re a natural combo. They could get fairly close to Dunn&#039;s production. (Your minus-6 for Dunn on defense seems optimistic.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ishikawa&#8217;s no top prospect; he&#8217;s a longshot to develop to &#8220;average.&#8221; But he does have a good glove, and both he and Phelps have big platoon splits, so they&#8217;re a natural combo. They could get fairly close to Dunn&#8217;s production. (Your minus-6 for Dunn on defense seems optimistic.)</p>
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		<title>By: oldjacket</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/potential-new-look-giants-o/#comment-55266</link>
		<dc:creator>oldjacket</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 18:32:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=1512#comment-55266</guid>
		<description>re: Ishi
consider him a top suspect.

He was a top prospect, struggled for a long time and then either had a breakout or fluke good year last year. 

I&#039;m a believer, but there&#039;s plenty of people (for good reason) who aren&#039;t.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re: Ishi<br />
consider him a top suspect.</p>
<p>He was a top prospect, struggled for a long time and then either had a breakout or fluke good year last year. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m a believer, but there&#8217;s plenty of people (for good reason) who aren&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: oldjacket</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/potential-new-look-giants-o/#comment-55265</link>
		<dc:creator>oldjacket</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 18:30:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=1512#comment-55265</guid>
		<description>This makes the prospective Sanchez for Cantu trade look stupid. It would gain 1.5 WAR over replacement platoon at first (though I think Ishikawa has a good chance to hit better than replacement), while giving up a young, cheap  pitcher whose FIP was well under his ERA last year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This makes the prospective Sanchez for Cantu trade look stupid. It would gain 1.5 WAR over replacement platoon at first (though I think Ishikawa has a good chance to hit better than replacement), while giving up a young, cheap  pitcher whose FIP was well under his ERA last year.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Seidman</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/potential-new-look-giants-o/#comment-55264</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Seidman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 18:24:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=1512#comment-55264</guid>
		<description>Haha, putting me to work!

Okay, Adam Dunn doesn&#039;t have much of a sample defensively at 1B, but I would be comfortable calling him a conservative -6 or so runs on defense at first base.  Weighting the Bill James and Marcels projection puts him at a .385 wOBA in 640 PA.  That puts him +29 runs offensively.  Factor in -12.5 for playing at 1B, and +20 above replacement, and Dunn would be a +3.05 win player.

Now, in the scenario you just presented, Sandoval would man 3B, Dunn at 1B, and everything else the same.  That would give the Giants offense +20.6 wins above replacement, practically a 5-win improvement on last year&#039;s total.

Again, this is assuming Sandoval performs as expected, Renteria is officially signed and bounces back, and other such factors.  Then again, the supposed difference between Ishi/Phelps and Dunn is 1.8 wins, and if Ishi is supposed to be one of your top prospects, do you sign Dunn to a big deal?  Or do you give him a 2-year deal if he would take that?  Even with the impoved bullpen and 5-win improvement on offense if this scenario works out, we&#039;re talking about an extreme upside of something like 82 wins.  Would you want that at the expense of not giving Ishi more playing time?

Or is he not one of the top, top prospects?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Haha, putting me to work!</p>
<p>Okay, Adam Dunn doesn&#8217;t have much of a sample defensively at 1B, but I would be comfortable calling him a conservative -6 or so runs on defense at first base.  Weighting the Bill James and Marcels projection puts him at a .385 wOBA in 640 PA.  That puts him +29 runs offensively.  Factor in -12.5 for playing at 1B, and +20 above replacement, and Dunn would be a +3.05 win player.</p>
<p>Now, in the scenario you just presented, Sandoval would man 3B, Dunn at 1B, and everything else the same.  That would give the Giants offense +20.6 wins above replacement, practically a 5-win improvement on last year&#8217;s total.</p>
<p>Again, this is assuming Sandoval performs as expected, Renteria is officially signed and bounces back, and other such factors.  Then again, the supposed difference between Ishi/Phelps and Dunn is 1.8 wins, and if Ishi is supposed to be one of your top prospects, do you sign Dunn to a big deal?  Or do you give him a 2-year deal if he would take that?  Even with the impoved bullpen and 5-win improvement on offense if this scenario works out, we&#8217;re talking about an extreme upside of something like 82 wins.  Would you want that at the expense of not giving Ishi more playing time?</p>
<p>Or is he not one of the top, top prospects?</p>
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		<title>By: Watcher</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/potential-new-look-giants-o/#comment-55261</link>
		<dc:creator>Watcher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 18:14:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=1512#comment-55261</guid>
		<description>Dave/Eric, it&#039;s fascinating to watch you two go back and forth like this.

For the record, I&#039;d say the odds of Bowker opening the season with the big league club are somewhere between slim and none, unless he&#039;s made huge strides in the offseason.

Hypothetically, what would signing Adam Dunn, rather than Cantu, and playing him at first base do for the team?  The Giants need a rainmaker in the middle of the lineup, and Dunn is still seemingly undervalued on the open market.  I&#039;m not particularly worried about his career line at Mays Field, as its so far off the rest of his career numbers that I&#039;d chalk it up as an anomaly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave/Eric, it&#8217;s fascinating to watch you two go back and forth like this.</p>
<p>For the record, I&#8217;d say the odds of Bowker opening the season with the big league club are somewhere between slim and none, unless he&#8217;s made huge strides in the offseason.</p>
<p>Hypothetically, what would signing Adam Dunn, rather than Cantu, and playing him at first base do for the team?  The Giants need a rainmaker in the middle of the lineup, and Dunn is still seemingly undervalued on the open market.  I&#8217;m not particularly worried about his career line at Mays Field, as its so far off the rest of his career numbers that I&#8217;d chalk it up as an anomaly.</p>
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