I know the game you’re talking about and just can’t find it. At the time of the signing they conceded Ibanez’s was perhaps a tick below average. They certainly didnt have him as a defensive liability. His fielding ratings are positive on the site and time will tell if he can keep it up.

It’s funny that Eric references confirmation bias earlier in the post, because that’s all I’ve seen in regards to Ibanez this year. “See, he’s had a great 2 months. That means a 3 year/$30 mil deal to a 37 year old LF was justified.” No, it doesn’t. It means he’s had a great 2 months.

Carl Pavano’s ERA after his first month with the Yankees was 3.10. Do you think the Yankees received a great return on their investment because of that 1 month? No, of course not, because a lot can happen in 3 or 4 years.

The signing doesn’t come down to Ibanez vs. Bradley, or Ibanez vs. Dunn, or Ibanez vs. Burrell. It comes down to Ibanez and Jamie Moyer vs. the various combinations of SPs and LFs that could have put the entire Phillies team in a much better position to repeat as champs this year.

I forget which game, but McCarthy and Sarge were announcing and T-Mac asked Amaro what he thought about Ibanez’s glove, and Amaro’s exact quote was – “He’s surprising all of us. We had him as a slightly below average defender but he has certainly proved us wrong so far.”

Take care,
Chuck

I heard Chris Wheeler ask leading questions to Amaro about Ibanez’s great defense on a telecast earlier this year and I didnt’t hear Amaro concede that Raul was a bad defender. They loved him as a character guy that would make more contact than Pat.

They picked the OF they wanted the most, went after him hard and got him. Maybe they left a few million or so on the table but thats the price you pay for being decisive.

Amaro also admiited that they do not have any statisticans in their employment so I doubt they are in tune with fangraphs. Keep up the great work.

Chuck

pat’s incredibly steaky (like i said in my post) and may go bonkers when he gets off the DL so he’s tommy aaron now but could be hank aaron for a month or two. who knows with burrell? thats the blessing and curse of pat the bat.

no thanks, we’ll go with ibanez. he’s in a smaller park with a killer lineup around him. like i said, lets talk at the all star game.

The one thing I have to point out, once again, and this might be where I differ from others who panned the signing, is that my criticisms were pointed towards the process, not the product. Sure I was skeptical about the product, but that can be wiped away by even a regressed version of Ibanez right now. The process bothered me because Amaro is a rookie GM and he seemed to jump the gun on this.

Perhaps they saw something scouting-wise not evident in the numbers… or maybe it’s a chicken/egg thing where Ibanez worked crazy hard to improve once he heard all these criticisms. Who knows?

Evaluating moves needs to be part-process and part-product. Otherwise we assign credit for dumb luck. There is no way Amaro saw Ibanez as the monster he is right now, and Amaro has openly admitted that on air, saying he had Raul as a below average defender with a decent bat. Hearing those words tells me that they were using what we use, but incorporating character, etc into the mix. To me, that wasn’t worth 3/30 at the beginning of a depressed market.

So if Ibanez sustains awesome performance for 2-3 yrs, I’ll gladly say that my criticisms of the move were a bit off, but my critiques were on Amaro’s process, not necessarily Ibanez himself.

The fact that Eric has Raul’s stats up in another window proves my point. He has Raul on the brain because what Ibanez is doing has been in contrast to what was forecasted. As I (and Eric) said we’re 1/4 of the way into year 1 of 3.

Lets see what happens but if he keeps this up long-term I’m hoping some experts will be man enough to admit it.

People claimed that the signing was terrible for any of the following reasons…..

1) he wasnt an upgrade from burrell

2) he wasnt worth the money compared to what was available and what they signed for (abreu, dunn, bradley, etc)

3) he’s too old

4) he’s one of the worst defensive left fielders in the world

lets revisit at the all star game when the season is 55% over….