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	<title>Comments on: The 5 (or so) Average-est Position Players of 2009</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-5-or-so-average-est-position-players-of-2009/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-5-or-so-average-est-position-players-of-2009/</link>
	<description>Daily baseball statistical analysis and commentary</description>
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		<title>By: Nick</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-5-or-so-average-est-position-players-of-2009/#comment-111209</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 02:31:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=11392#comment-111209</guid>
		<description>clint barmes as bad as atkins at the plate?  check HR totals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>clint barmes as bad as atkins at the plate?  check HR totals.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-5-or-so-average-est-position-players-of-2009/#comment-108351</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 06:01:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=11392#comment-108351</guid>
		<description>I kinda feel like a player&#039;s average-ness should be calculated by summing the abs. value of each component (batting, fielding, positional), and just disregarding the replacement level. That would yield the player with the most universally average skillset, versus a player like Ludwick, who is kinda above average in hitting, but below average in defense at a discounted position. I realize this eliminates a lot of players simply by virtue of position, but I guess I&#039;d argue that&#039;s kind of the point.

And it would appear the Bob-adjusted Average-est POY is Jose Lopez, at a staggering 3.9 abs. runs from average ( .1 B, 2.9 F, .9 P). I&#039;d say that&#039;s pretty overwhelmingly average, but he only comes in at 30th in the original list. Oh well. He&#039;s followed by Mark DeRosa and Melky Cabrera</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I kinda feel like a player&#8217;s average-ness should be calculated by summing the abs. value of each component (batting, fielding, positional), and just disregarding the replacement level. That would yield the player with the most universally average skillset, versus a player like Ludwick, who is kinda above average in hitting, but below average in defense at a discounted position. I realize this eliminates a lot of players simply by virtue of position, but I guess I&#8217;d argue that&#8217;s kind of the point.</p>
<p>And it would appear the Bob-adjusted Average-est POY is Jose Lopez, at a staggering 3.9 abs. runs from average ( .1 B, 2.9 F, .9 P). I&#8217;d say that&#8217;s pretty overwhelmingly average, but he only comes in at 30th in the original list. Oh well. He&#8217;s followed by Mark DeRosa and Melky Cabrera</p>
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		<title>By: Bluecaboose</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-5-or-so-average-est-position-players-of-2009/#comment-107738</link>
		<dc:creator>Bluecaboose</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 01:44:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=11392#comment-107738</guid>
		<description>Yes, mostly due to Jimmy essentially being Clint Barmes at the plate. (seriously, .245/.294/.440 vs .250/.296/.423), and Furcal being better defensively this year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, mostly due to Jimmy essentially being Clint Barmes at the plate. (seriously, .245/.294/.440 vs .250/.296/.423), and Furcal being better defensively this year.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-5-or-so-average-est-position-players-of-2009/#comment-107589</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 14:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=11392#comment-107589</guid>
		<description>Did furcal have a better overall season than rollins did?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Did furcal have a better overall season than rollins did?</p>
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		<title>By: vivaelpujols</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-5-or-so-average-est-position-players-of-2009/#comment-107585</link>
		<dc:creator>vivaelpujols</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 13:55:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=11392#comment-107585</guid>
		<description>No, Bonifacio started the year off really hot.  Then...

It was a joke though, you&#039;re doing great.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, Bonifacio started the year off really hot.  Then&#8230;</p>
<p>It was a joke though, you&#8217;re doing great.</p>
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		<title>By: JoeyO</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-5-or-so-average-est-position-players-of-2009/#comment-107554</link>
		<dc:creator>JoeyO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 05:39:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=11392#comment-107554</guid>
		<description>Hahaha, it dawned on me what is going on here. He is referring to average as a player who has his Batting, Fielding and Positional Adjustment get as close as possible to 0. The fact that they all seem to end up in the 18.Somthing RAR range is coincidence, not design – they just happened to have a similar amount of PA. So this really means “closest to neutral value for his respective position” and not “represents the average MLB player” like I was replying to after seeing the RAR’s all ending up at 18.Something.

Guess we were both right, I was just at the wrong house  :)
(but why didnt you just say &quot;he is trying to make 0 between the Bat+Fld+Pos fields&quot; in a clearer way? Hahaha)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hahaha, it dawned on me what is going on here. He is referring to average as a player who has his Batting, Fielding and Positional Adjustment get as close as possible to 0. The fact that they all seem to end up in the 18.Somthing RAR range is coincidence, not design – they just happened to have a similar amount of PA. So this really means “closest to neutral value for his respective position” and not “represents the average MLB player” like I was replying to after seeing the RAR’s all ending up at 18.Something.</p>
<p>Guess we were both right, I was just at the wrong house  :)<br />
(but why didnt you just say &#8220;he is trying to make 0 between the Bat+Fld+Pos fields&#8221; in a clearer way? Hahaha)</p>
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		<title>By: JoeyO</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-5-or-so-average-est-position-players-of-2009/#comment-107551</link>
		<dc:creator>JoeyO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 05:14:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=11392#comment-107551</guid>
		<description>Matt Klaassen,

No, I am using Average as the baseline. A true average person is worth 0 Batting Runs Above Average and 0 Fielding Runs Above Average. The average positional adjustment is intended to be 0 (even if the DH adjusts it by about a bit over a run). And the average player gets 300 PA.

Put those exact stats into a fangraphs calculation.

0 Batting RAA + 0 Fielding RAA + 10 Replacement + 0 Positional

The outcome for the perfectly average player is 10 RAR, or a 1.0 WAR.

By saying average is 20 RAR or 2.0 WAR (well, 18.Something because of the DH), you are saying +20 Runs Above Replacement and +2.0 Wins Above Replacement. Keeping the Batting RAA, Fielding RAA and Positional Adjustment all at 0 means the entire +20 has to be in the Replacement field. But if you put a +20 Replacement in you are saying “kept a replacement level player off the field for 600 PA”. You cant do that if you only get 300 PA yourself. If you are average you can only keep him off the field for the 300 PA you get, and that is worth +10 runs, not +20 runs. So you cant be average and be 20 RAR/2.0 WAR unless you managed 600 PA; and you arent average if you got 600 PA. That is their problem.

Truly being average means 0’s across the board and 300 PA. Doing so leaves your equation looking like the one I provided above, with an end result of 10 RAR and 1.0 WAR. “Average” = 10 RAR or 1.0 WAR.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt Klaassen,</p>
<p>No, I am using Average as the baseline. A true average person is worth 0 Batting Runs Above Average and 0 Fielding Runs Above Average. The average positional adjustment is intended to be 0 (even if the DH adjusts it by about a bit over a run). And the average player gets 300 PA.</p>
<p>Put those exact stats into a fangraphs calculation.</p>
<p>0 Batting RAA + 0 Fielding RAA + 10 Replacement + 0 Positional</p>
<p>The outcome for the perfectly average player is 10 RAR, or a 1.0 WAR.</p>
<p>By saying average is 20 RAR or 2.0 WAR (well, 18.Something because of the DH), you are saying +20 Runs Above Replacement and +2.0 Wins Above Replacement. Keeping the Batting RAA, Fielding RAA and Positional Adjustment all at 0 means the entire +20 has to be in the Replacement field. But if you put a +20 Replacement in you are saying “kept a replacement level player off the field for 600 PA”. You cant do that if you only get 300 PA yourself. If you are average you can only keep him off the field for the 300 PA you get, and that is worth +10 runs, not +20 runs. So you cant be average and be 20 RAR/2.0 WAR unless you managed 600 PA; and you arent average if you got 600 PA. That is their problem.</p>
<p>Truly being average means 0’s across the board and 300 PA. Doing so leaves your equation looking like the one I provided above, with an end result of 10 RAR and 1.0 WAR. “Average” = 10 RAR or 1.0 WAR.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Klaassen</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-5-or-so-average-est-position-players-of-2009/#comment-107530</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Klaassen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 03:03:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=11392#comment-107530</guid>
		<description>JoeyO: 

I&#039;m not sure I understand what you&#039;re getting at. Corrent me if I&#039;m wrong, but it sounds like you&#039;re assuming that WAR is calculated using replacement level as its original baseline, and &quot;builds up&quot; to a +20 run (~+2 wins) plyaer as average.

That&#039;s not how it works. The &quot;replacement&quot; line is added in completely separately. If you leave out &quot;replacement,&quot; Not matter how many PAs a player has, if he&#039;s perfectly average as a hitter, and perfectly average as a fielder (leave aside the positional adjustment issue for now, or assume his pos _ field = 0), he&#039;s exaclty average, no matter how many PAs he has.

Maybe someone else can jump in here and tell me what I&#039;m missing?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JoeyO: </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure I understand what you&#8217;re getting at. Corrent me if I&#8217;m wrong, but it sounds like you&#8217;re assuming that WAR is calculated using replacement level as its original baseline, and &#8220;builds up&#8221; to a +20 run (~+2 wins) plyaer as average.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s not how it works. The &#8220;replacement&#8221; line is added in completely separately. If you leave out &#8220;replacement,&#8221; Not matter how many PAs a player has, if he&#8217;s perfectly average as a hitter, and perfectly average as a fielder (leave aside the positional adjustment issue for now, or assume his pos _ field = 0), he&#8217;s exaclty average, no matter how many PAs he has.</p>
<p>Maybe someone else can jump in here and tell me what I&#8217;m missing?</p>
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		<title>By: JoeyO</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-5-or-so-average-est-position-players-of-2009/#comment-107529</link>
		<dc:creator>JoeyO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 02:57:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=11392#comment-107529</guid>
		<description>exactly.

And a replacement player is graded on a -20 runs fewer then the average player per 600 PA received.

Average wRAA = 0.
Average UZR = 0.
Average PA = 300.

So the average player = 0 + 0 + 300 PA of the -20 Runs per 600 PA a replacement level player receives, or 10 Runs overall. That is a 1.0 WAR, not 2.0.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>exactly.</p>
<p>And a replacement player is graded on a -20 runs fewer then the average player per 600 PA received.</p>
<p>Average wRAA = 0.<br />
Average UZR = 0.<br />
Average PA = 300.</p>
<p>So the average player = 0 + 0 + 300 PA of the -20 Runs per 600 PA a replacement level player receives, or 10 Runs overall. That is a 1.0 WAR, not 2.0.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Klaassen</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-5-or-so-average-est-position-players-of-2009/#comment-107527</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Klaassen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 02:51:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=11392#comment-107527</guid>
		<description>Thanks... I think.

Okay, I don&#039;t get it.

Are you saying I have a .611 OPS as a FanGraphs blogger?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks&#8230; I think.</p>
<p>Okay, I don&#8217;t get it.</p>
<p>Are you saying I have a .611 OPS as a FanGraphs blogger?</p>
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