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	<title>Comments on: The Closer Markup</title>
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	<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-closer-markup/</link>
	<description>Daily baseball statistical analysis and commentary</description>
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		<title>By: HOWRY'S COUSIN</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-closer-markup/#comment-167327</link>
		<dc:creator>HOWRY'S COUSIN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 May 2010 17:39:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=2241#comment-167327</guid>
		<description>how bout&#039; that denny hamlin! did you see the race?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>how bout&#8217; that denny hamlin! did you see the race?</p>
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		<title>By: Jacob</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-closer-markup/#comment-59473</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jan 2009 22:43:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=2241#comment-59473</guid>
		<description>Dave,

Clearly Hoffman got overpaid, however, your conclusion stinks.

&quot;Hoffman got, essentially, twice as much money for the same skills because he comes with the proven closer label. Even in a depressed economic market, the closer markup is still ridiculous.&quot;

Here you imply Howry was paid market value for his services, and in your article on the Howry signing you suggest that he was underpaid. The &quot;closer markup&quot; should be measured as a markup from fair market value, not from howry&#039;s undermarket contract, right? 

(Also, if you look closer at Howry, and the disappearance of his fastball, and his z-contact% you may conclude that it&#039;s not that he was unlucky last year- as you assumed in your earlier analysis- but that his skills may have deteriorated, and he carries a much greater risk going forward.)

Finally, in addition to the closer markup, don&#039;t ignore the hall-of-fame markup. Assign those markups about a half million dollars each and the whole one year deal does not look as absurd as you suggest. Really the only absurd thing is to assign the difference between the howry and hoffman contracts ONLY to the &quot;proven closer&quot; label.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave,</p>
<p>Clearly Hoffman got overpaid, however, your conclusion stinks.</p>
<p>&#8220;Hoffman got, essentially, twice as much money for the same skills because he comes with the proven closer label. Even in a depressed economic market, the closer markup is still ridiculous.&#8221;</p>
<p>Here you imply Howry was paid market value for his services, and in your article on the Howry signing you suggest that he was underpaid. The &#8220;closer markup&#8221; should be measured as a markup from fair market value, not from howry&#8217;s undermarket contract, right? </p>
<p>(Also, if you look closer at Howry, and the disappearance of his fastball, and his z-contact% you may conclude that it&#8217;s not that he was unlucky last year- as you assumed in your earlier analysis- but that his skills may have deteriorated, and he carries a much greater risk going forward.)</p>
<p>Finally, in addition to the closer markup, don&#8217;t ignore the hall-of-fame markup. Assign those markups about a half million dollars each and the whole one year deal does not look as absurd as you suggest. Really the only absurd thing is to assign the difference between the howry and hoffman contracts ONLY to the &#8220;proven closer&#8221; label.</p>
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		<title>By: Millsy</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-closer-markup/#comment-59277</link>
		<dc:creator>Millsy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jan 2009 17:38:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=2241#comment-59277</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the superb defense there, Hal.  I&#039;ll be sure to consult with you in the future.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the superb defense there, Hal.  I&#8217;ll be sure to consult with you in the future.</p>
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		<title>By: dan</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-closer-markup/#comment-59230</link>
		<dc:creator>dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 22:48:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=2241#comment-59230</guid>
		<description>Not always. I suggest you do some looking around on the internet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not always. I suggest you do some looking around on the internet.</p>
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		<title>By: hal</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-closer-markup/#comment-59124</link>
		<dc:creator>hal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 22:10:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=2241#comment-59124</guid>
		<description>They know from putting pitchers in high pressure situations and watching them fail.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They know from putting pitchers in high pressure situations and watching them fail.</p>
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		<title>By: hal</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-closer-markup/#comment-59122</link>
		<dc:creator>hal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 22:06:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=2241#comment-59122</guid>
		<description>How well someone performs isn&#039;t indicative of how talented they are? I hope you&#039;re a Giants fan. You deserve Howry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How well someone performs isn&#8217;t indicative of how talented they are? I hope you&#8217;re a Giants fan. You deserve Howry.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: hal</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-closer-markup/#comment-59121</link>
		<dc:creator>hal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 22:00:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=2241#comment-59121</guid>
		<description>Thanks Dan. Very adult of you - and psychic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Dan. Very adult of you &#8211; and psychic.</p>
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		<title>By: hal</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-closer-markup/#comment-59120</link>
		<dc:creator>hal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 21:59:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=2241#comment-59120</guid>
		<description>Fine, don&#039;t respond to the arguments. Good job comparing two quite different pitchers who performed in quite different situations. 

And you are often quite emotional whether you refuse to discuss it or not. That emotion doesn&#039;t have to be attached to a team either - that&#039;s just being evasive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fine, don&#8217;t respond to the arguments. Good job comparing two quite different pitchers who performed in quite different situations. </p>
<p>And you are often quite emotional whether you refuse to discuss it or not. That emotion doesn&#8217;t have to be attached to a team either &#8211; that&#8217;s just being evasive.</p>
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		<title>By: chris</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-closer-markup/#comment-59088</link>
		<dc:creator>chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 18:53:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=2241#comment-59088</guid>
		<description>Howry will choke in pressure situations. Sorry to say, but its also the makeup of a pitcher that seperates a closer from an ordinary bullpen guy.. 
Hoffman is the better pressure guy, even if his stuff isn&#039;t there anymore. 
Love him or hate him, he is the better closer than Howry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Howry will choke in pressure situations. Sorry to say, but its also the makeup of a pitcher that seperates a closer from an ordinary bullpen guy..<br />
Hoffman is the better pressure guy, even if his stuff isn&#8217;t there anymore.<br />
Love him or hate him, he is the better closer than Howry.</p>
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		<title>By: Millsy</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-closer-markup/#comment-59072</link>
		<dc:creator>Millsy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 17:43:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=2241#comment-59072</guid>
		<description>Pizza Cutter...a fantastic analysis the absurdity of reliever pay.  Very simple...very straight forward.  It&#039;s almost comical if this data is accurate.  What&#039;s to say that those in non-save situations wouldn&#039;t pitch just as well in save situations?  At this point, I have seen very little data on any of that (references to Nuke Laloosh, John Rocker, and Ryan Leaf are appropriate, I guess...I just like bringing John Rocker into any conversation).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pizza Cutter&#8230;a fantastic analysis the absurdity of reliever pay.  Very simple&#8230;very straight forward.  It&#8217;s almost comical if this data is accurate.  What&#8217;s to say that those in non-save situations wouldn&#8217;t pitch just as well in save situations?  At this point, I have seen very little data on any of that (references to Nuke Laloosh, John Rocker, and Ryan Leaf are appropriate, I guess&#8230;I just like bringing John Rocker into any conversation).</p>
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