Comments on: The Curse of Paul Sorrento http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-curse-of-paul-sorrento/ Daily baseball statistical analysis and commentary Sun, 12 Feb 2012 23:03:48 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Chip http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-curse-of-paul-sorrento/#comment-76136 Chip Sun, 17 May 2009 21:06:14 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=4902#comment-76136 How much of what we "knew" accounted for league and park? How much of what we “knew” accounted for league and park?

]]> By: DavidCEisen http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-curse-of-paul-sorrento/#comment-76128 DavidCEisen Sun, 17 May 2009 18:53:45 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=4902#comment-76128 I should have added that the Phillies would have to eat some of the salary. I should have added that the Phillies would have to eat some of the salary.

]]> By: CH http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-curse-of-paul-sorrento/#comment-76124 CH Sun, 17 May 2009 16:12:28 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=4902#comment-76124 I don't think you can trade his salary to a team looking for a DH. The teams with the money available to take on $11.5 a year tend to have plenty of candidates for the DH role. Or, if you can trade him, you have to eat at least half of his salary. Plus, I never called it "incompetence," although some others might have. I just said I didn't like the terms of the contract itself. It's not that Raul Ibanez isn't a good enough player to sign, it's that they're paying him too much and for 1 more year that I would have liked. If they gave him a 2 year deal for $8 mil per year, I would have loved the deal. That would be $16 mil guaranteed instead of $31.5 mil guaranteed. That's a significant difference, and the $15.5 mil that they would have saved could be spent on upgrading a pitching staff that drops off precipitously after Hamels. So, again, let's wait until 2011 to say it was a good move, or at least until September. I don’t think you can trade his salary to a team looking for a DH. The teams with the money available to take on $11.5 a year tend to have plenty of candidates for the DH role. Or, if you can trade him, you have to eat at least half of his salary.

Plus, I never called it “incompetence,” although some others might have. I just said I didn’t like the terms of the contract itself. It’s not that Raul Ibanez isn’t a good enough player to sign, it’s that they’re paying him too much and for 1 more year that I would have liked. If they gave him a 2 year deal for $8 mil per year, I would have loved the deal. That would be $16 mil guaranteed instead of $31.5 mil guaranteed. That’s a significant difference, and the $15.5 mil that they would have saved could be spent on upgrading a pitching staff that drops off precipitously after Hamels.

So, again, let’s wait until 2011 to say it was a good move, or at least until September.

]]> By: DavidCEisen http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-curse-of-paul-sorrento/#comment-76119 DavidCEisen Sun, 17 May 2009 14:45:37 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=4902#comment-76119 Of course not, but you can look at the the player gotten rid of (Burrell) and the player brought in (Ibanez) and compare the two. Its not immediately apparent that Ibanez is going to decline faster at 37 than Burrell will at 31. You can also look at how long the Phillies team has a likelihood of competing for a championship (2 to 3 years), and measure the deal that way. Also assuming that Ibanez starts to decline, his biggest decline is going to come in the field (where is UZR is higher than what is expected anyway). If in the third year of the contract Ibenez is good bat (wOBA~ 350) with a terrible glove, the Phils could trade him to an AL team looking for a DH. The Phils were obviously thinking short term with the Ibanez signing. They want to win again. Call it incompetence if you like, but they managed to sign the league leader in .ISO and wOBA so far. Of course not, but you can look at the the player gotten rid of (Burrell) and the player brought in (Ibanez) and compare the two. Its not immediately apparent that Ibanez is going to decline faster at 37 than Burrell will at 31. You can also look at how long the Phillies team has a likelihood of competing for a championship (2 to 3 years), and measure the deal that way.

Also assuming that Ibanez starts to decline, his biggest decline is going to come in the field (where is UZR is higher than what is expected anyway). If in the third year of the contract Ibenez is good bat (wOBA~ 350) with a terrible glove, the Phils could trade him to an AL team looking for a DH.

The Phils were obviously thinking short term with the Ibanez signing. They want to win again. Call it incompetence if you like, but they managed to sign the league leader in .ISO and wOBA so far.

]]> By: Nick http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-curse-of-paul-sorrento/#comment-76079 Nick Sat, 16 May 2009 22:26:22 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=4902#comment-76079 I'm pretty sure RJ does. I’m pretty sure RJ does.

]]> By: CH http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-curse-of-paul-sorrento/#comment-75993 CH Fri, 15 May 2009 23:20:52 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=4902#comment-75993 You can't judge a 3-year deal, given to a 37-year-old player, in the first 2 months of that deal. I didn't like the contract terms when they were announced, but I really like Ibanez as a player and he seems like a pretty cool guy, so I'm hoping he proves us all wrong by continuing to perform like this through 2011. A season in which he will turn 40. You can’t judge a 3-year deal, given to a 37-year-old player, in the first 2 months of that deal. I didn’t like the contract terms when they were announced, but I really like Ibanez as a player and he seems like a pretty cool guy, so I’m hoping he proves us all wrong by continuing to perform like this through 2011. A season in which he will turn 40.

]]> By: Davidceisen http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-curse-of-paul-sorrento/#comment-75978 Davidceisen Fri, 15 May 2009 19:55:35 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=4902#comment-75978 If you want to believe that you knew more about a player on the Phillies roster than the Phillies front office knew, then go ahead. I'm certainly not going to argue with you. If you want to believe that you knew more about a player on the Phillies roster than the Phillies front office knew, then go ahead. I’m certainly not going to argue with you.

]]> By: R.J. Anderson http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-curse-of-paul-sorrento/#comment-75976 R.J. Anderson Fri, 15 May 2009 19:47:02 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=4902#comment-75976 If that's how you want to excuse incompetence, then go ahead. I'm not going to argue with you. If that’s how you want to excuse incompetence, then go ahead. I’m not going to argue with you.

]]> By: Davidceisen http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-curse-of-paul-sorrento/#comment-75975 Davidceisen Fri, 15 May 2009 19:39:05 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=4902#comment-75975 Based on what we knew, but not necessarily what the Phillies knew. Based on what we knew, but not necessarily what the Phillies knew.

]]> By: R.J. Anderson http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-curse-of-paul-sorrento/#comment-75958 R.J. Anderson Fri, 15 May 2009 15:26:12 +0000 http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=4902#comment-75958 Based on what we knew at the time? Absolutely. Based on what we knew at the time? Absolutely.

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