There’s Just Something About St. Louis
Writers and players often tab fans of the St. Louis Cardinals as the best in the land. They are a loyal bunch in supporting one of the history-rich teams in the league. Over the years players like Mark McGwire, Scott Rolen, Larry Walker, and most recently Matt Holliday have moved to the league’s heartland at various points during the middle of the season and, well, caught the Cardinal fever so to speak.
In 1997 McGwire recorded 433 plate appearances for the Oakland Athletics, hitting 34 home runs and posting a .421 wOBA. The Cardinals pulled him from the A’s hands in exchange for T.J. Matthews, Eric Ludwick, and Blake Stein. McGwire promptly did what most 33-year-old first basemen do upon being dealt mid-season; he hit 24 home runs in 224 plate appearances and held a .447 wOBA with the Cardinals. Then he’d go on to blast 135 home runs over the next two seasons. Typical production really.
Five seasons later the Cardinals would pull off another large deadline deal by acquiring one of the finer third basemen in the league. Rolen would turn up the power production during his first half-season in St. Louis, and his .361 wOBA with the Phillies that season would look pedestrian versus his .386 figure with the Cards.
Walker would actually cool down with a .411 wOBA for the Cardinals as he did have a .460 wOBA before changing teams mid-season. For his efforts Walker would win a ring and retire after an additional season. This makes him the anti-Holliday, who went from a .368 wOBA with the Athletics to a .421 wOBA through his time with the Cardinals.
Bonus points for Jim Edmonds, although he was dealt during the off-season rather than in June/July. Of course I’m not saying St. Louis ultimately helps a player perform better, this is all mostly coincidence. A pretty amusing coincidence.
1
Will Clark, 2000
Orioles, 310 PA, 129 OPS+
Cards, 197 PA, 166 OPS+
Walker won a ring with the Cardinals? Looks to me like he retired before their World Series win.
Walker did retire after 2005. Juan Encarnacion was their right fielder until he got hit in the eye standing at the on deck circle. That’s why Chris Duncan was able to drop that fly ball in the fifth game of the WS.
And before Big Mac the Cards also picked up Cedeno and Driessen at the end of 1985 and 1987 to get them into the WS. Of course they were considered washed up as opposed to top line players.
That’s wrong too.
Encarnacion suffered his eye injury in 2007. Duncan was playing RF in the WS b/c that’s where he claimed to feel more comfortable and b/c Encarnacion wasn’t hitting at all.
You have to be right because White Sox won in 2005 his last year. Perhaps he confused him with Jeff Weaver who like Walker is white and…. well that’s probably where the similarities end
Another similarity: both Walker and Weaver have an argument for getting into the HOF. Weaver’s requires buying a ticket though.
Larry Walker once threw one ball into the right field stands by mistake.
Jeff Weaver has thrown a lot of mistakes that ended up in the right field stands.
See how easy it is to get them confused?
White people all look the same anyway…
Technically, you get a ring for winning the pennant too. So sort of, I guess?
Jocketty was excellent at identifying and acquiring veterans who’d benefit from a change of scenery. Rolen and Edmonds in particular were guys that wanted out of their old teams, and might have had the same renaissance elsewhere.
St. Louis article that didn’t mention Albert Pujols
Who is this Albert Pujols you speak of? :)
Cards gave up a nice player for Rolen (Polanco), but Rolen was awesome with the Cards the first couple of years.
How could you leave out Estaban Yan?
2003 TEX: 6.94 ERA
2003 STL: 6.02 ERA
The Seattle Mariners of the past half-decade are the opposite. Let me show you some examples.
First, some guys who had huge drop offs after arriving in Seattle
Adrian Beltre
Richie Sexson
Jeff Cirillo
Erik Bedard
Eddie Guardado
And some guys who the M’s got tired of and are now flourishing on other teams.
Joel Pineiro
Ryan Franklin
Brian Fuentes
Scott Podsednik
Gil Meche
Adam Jones
Shin-Soo Choo
It may be just me (and the rest of Seattle)…If someone could make a similar list for another team, that might make me feel a bit better. Ever since 2001, when EVERYONE had a career year, all that stuff above has been happening.
“The 2001 Mariners were so good that Paul Abbott went 17-4.”
Dodgers:
Acquired since 2006:
Marlon Anderson
Lance Carter
Dannyz Baez
Mark Hendrickson
Jae Seo
Esteban Loaiza
Angel Berroa
Wilson Betemit
Elmer Dessens
Mark Sweeney
David Wells
Brady Clark
Casey Blake
Manny Ramirez
Pablo Ozuna
Greg Maddux (twice, only once while he was good)
Jason Johnson
Julio Lugo
Ricky Ledee
Shea Hillenbrand
Ronny Belliard
Wow, actually looking at all of that really shows just how crappy all but like 6 of those trades actually were.
Dodgers players traded since 2006:
Dionar Nivarro
Joel Guzman
Andy Laroche
Byran Morris
Willy Aybar
Jae Seo
Odalis Perez
Delwyn Young
Cody Ross
Wilson Betemit
Caesar Izturis
Michael Watt
Those are all the big name minor leaguers I can think of and all the MLB players that the Dodgers have traded away since 06.
Max, one example is Cleveland, though not as dramatic as the Mariners. You can probably do this for every time (and it would, obviously, be very easy to do for the Expos/Nationals).
Since 2001, the Indians let go of the following guys, who struggled in Cleveland, but then went on to do very well elsewhere:
Franklin Gutierrez
Ryan Ludwick
Brandon Phillips
Kevin Kouzmanoff
Milton Bradley (sort of)
Dave Roberts
Justin Speier
Chad Durbin (sort of)
Jeremy Guthrie
And this doesn’t count guys like Sabathia, Lee, VMart, Coco, Thome, Manny, who all left at the top of their game.
“And before Big Mac the Cards also picked up Cedeno and Driessen at the end of 1985 and 1987 to get them into the WS. Of course they were considered washed up as opposed to top line players.”
Cedeno was probably the best example of all of a late season pickup (in 1985) that had a dramatic difference in performance
Cedeno, 1985
Reds, 245 PA, 78 OPS+
Cards, 82 PA, 235 OPS+ (.434/.463/.750)
Driessen was signed to a minor league contract, then called up, and had only a 65 OPS+, so he doesn’t quite fit the profile.
Pujols is a steroid fueled freak show. There will be much hand wringing when he is outed. The popular sports media will cry crocodile tears over our latest “loss of innocence.” Open your eyes and look at him, idiots.
no u
http://www.sos.state.il.us/publications/rules_of_the_road/image/no_u_turn.gif
Moron.
How does it feel to be a Cubs fan? Must suck.
It’s hard to argue with this kind of comprehensive, hard-hitting analysis.
He’s on steroids because open your eyes and look at him.
The objectivity is almost pungent. I can almost taste the validity of this argument.
St. Louis has one of the best steroid distribution networks in baseball and has for years. Everyone in sports knows that!