<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	xmlns:itunes="http://www.itunes.com/dtds/podcast-1.0.dtd"
xmlns:rawvoice="http://www.rawvoice.com/rawvoiceRssModule/"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Where are David Price&#8217;s Grounders?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/where-are-david-prices-grounders/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/where-are-david-prices-grounders/</link>
	<description>Daily baseball statistical analysis and commentary</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 21:51:40 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: AngMohClay</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/where-are-david-prices-grounders/#comment-90635</link>
		<dc:creator>AngMohClay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 22:59:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=7889#comment-90635</guid>
		<description>that looked prettier when I pasted it, R does not paste well into a text box, the whitespace gets fucked up.  Oh well, people should still be able to follow it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>that looked prettier when I pasted it, R does not paste well into a text box, the whitespace gets fucked up.  Oh well, people should still be able to follow it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: AngMohClay</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/where-are-david-prices-grounders/#comment-90633</link>
		<dc:creator>AngMohClay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 22:57:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=7889#comment-90633</guid>
		<description>Your theory doesn&#039;t withstand scrutiny.  David Price is throwing less GBs in 2009, and MLE doesn&#039;t explain it.  The sample sizes are pretty small, but these relationships are almost statistically significant.  

[in R]

&gt; MLB_08 MLB_09 MLB MLB
       [,1] [,2]
MLB_08   20   20
MLB_09   79  140
&gt; fisher.test(MLB)

        Fisher&#039;s Exact Test for Count Data

data:  MLB 
p-value = 0.1120
alternative hypothesis: true odds ratio is not equal to 1 
95 percent confidence interval:
 0.8464159 3.6972463 
sample estimates:
odds ratio 
  1.768135 

Our p-value from this Fisher&#039;s exact test comparing GBs to non-GBs is almost less than .1 (which isn&#039;t the generally used scientific p-value, that&#039;s usually .05, but many companies/government institutions use .1 including the US Census Bureau).  We don&#039;t quite have a statistically significant difference, but it&#039;s so close we have to consider this a meaningful relationship in this real world of incomplete information we live in.

Similarly, the AAA relationship is almost statistically significant.

&gt; AAA
       [,1] [,2]
AAA_08   30   26
AAA_09   38   55
&gt; fisher.test(AAA)

        Fisher&#039;s Exact Test for Count Data

data:  AAA 
p-value = 0.1742
alternative hypothesis: true odds ratio is not equal to 1 
95 percent confidence interval:
 0.8112947 3.4407261 
sample estimates:
odds ratio 
  1.664258 

Here it is .1742, which is also not quite significant but still suggests that there is something there.

So to reiterate, no there isn&#039;t a simple explanation, and if there was it certainly is not MLE.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your theory doesn&#8217;t withstand scrutiny.  David Price is throwing less GBs in 2009, and MLE doesn&#8217;t explain it.  The sample sizes are pretty small, but these relationships are almost statistically significant.  </p>
<p>[in R]</p>
<p>&gt; MLB_08 MLB_09 MLB MLB<br />
       [,1] [,2]<br />
MLB_08   20   20<br />
MLB_09   79  140<br />
&gt; fisher.test(MLB)</p>
<p>        Fisher&#8217;s Exact Test for Count Data</p>
<p>data:  MLB<br />
p-value = 0.1120<br />
alternative hypothesis: true odds ratio is not equal to 1<br />
95 percent confidence interval:<br />
 0.8464159 3.6972463<br />
sample estimates:<br />
odds ratio<br />
  1.768135 </p>
<p>Our p-value from this Fisher&#8217;s exact test comparing GBs to non-GBs is almost less than .1 (which isn&#8217;t the generally used scientific p-value, that&#8217;s usually .05, but many companies/government institutions use .1 including the US Census Bureau).  We don&#8217;t quite have a statistically significant difference, but it&#8217;s so close we have to consider this a meaningful relationship in this real world of incomplete information we live in.</p>
<p>Similarly, the AAA relationship is almost statistically significant.</p>
<p>&gt; AAA<br />
       [,1] [,2]<br />
AAA_08   30   26<br />
AAA_09   38   55<br />
&gt; fisher.test(AAA)</p>
<p>        Fisher&#8217;s Exact Test for Count Data</p>
<p>data:  AAA<br />
p-value = 0.1742<br />
alternative hypothesis: true odds ratio is not equal to 1<br />
95 percent confidence interval:<br />
 0.8112947 3.4407261<br />
sample estimates:<br />
odds ratio<br />
  1.664258 </p>
<p>Here it is .1742, which is also not quite significant but still suggests that there is something there.</p>
<p>So to reiterate, no there isn&#8217;t a simple explanation, and if there was it certainly is not MLE.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dave Allen</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/where-are-david-prices-grounders/#comment-90625</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Allen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 22:21:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=7889#comment-90625</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;One question, ‘rise’ (or really just vertical movement generally) in PitchFX is considered to be the vertical distance (in inches) that a pitch deviates from the expected trajectory at a given velocity with gravity included, correct.&lt;/em&gt;

Exactly. So I say &#039;rise&#039; for pitches with positive vertical movement, because they do not actually rise as the move to the plate.  But they drop less than you would expect due to gravity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>One question, ‘rise’ (or really just vertical movement generally) in PitchFX is considered to be the vertical distance (in inches) that a pitch deviates from the expected trajectory at a given velocity with gravity included, correct.</em></p>
<p>Exactly. So I say &#8216;rise&#8217; for pitches with positive vertical movement, because they do not actually rise as the move to the plate.  But they drop less than you would expect due to gravity.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: AngMohClay</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/where-are-david-prices-grounders/#comment-90621</link>
		<dc:creator>AngMohClay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 22:06:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=7889#comment-90621</guid>
		<description>To clarify, by correlation in my previous post I meant negative correlation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To clarify, by correlation in my previous post I meant negative correlation.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: AngMohClay</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/where-are-david-prices-grounders/#comment-90619</link>
		<dc:creator>AngMohClay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 22:03:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=7889#comment-90619</guid>
		<description>My bad, it was you Senior Allen. 

Agreed on the &#039;rise&#039; of the fastball and it&#039;s correlation to GB%.  Your article on Affeldt displayed that beautifully if I recall correctly.

One question, &#039;rise&#039; (or really just vertical movement generally) in PitchFX is considered to be the vertical distance (in inches) that a pitch deviates from the expected trajectory at a given velocity with gravity included, correct.

So a FB with positive vertical movement, i.e. &#039;rise&#039; (which I believe you refer to by placing it in quotes) before it crosses a certain threshold actually means the ball goes more &quot;straight&quot;, right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My bad, it was you Senior Allen. </p>
<p>Agreed on the &#8216;rise&#8217; of the fastball and it&#8217;s correlation to GB%.  Your article on Affeldt displayed that beautifully if I recall correctly.</p>
<p>One question, &#8216;rise&#8217; (or really just vertical movement generally) in PitchFX is considered to be the vertical distance (in inches) that a pitch deviates from the expected trajectory at a given velocity with gravity included, correct.</p>
<p>So a FB with positive vertical movement, i.e. &#8216;rise&#8217; (which I believe you refer to by placing it in quotes) before it crosses a certain threshold actually means the ball goes more &#8220;straight&#8221;, right?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Pdangle</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/where-are-david-prices-grounders/#comment-90613</link>
		<dc:creator>Pdangle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 21:47:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=7889#comment-90613</guid>
		<description>I think the answer is pretty simple: Sample size, with a sprinkle of MLE thrown in. Ground balls are tougher to come by in MLB which accounts for the drop from his MiLB numbers. And then trying to compare his raw small sample size 2008 and 2009 GB rates without some regression is bound to cause a bit of head scratching. In a nutshell, I don&#039;t think we ever really knew with certainty what his MLB GB% was going to be, and shouldn&#039;t really be surprised by his numbers this season, especially if a little variance is added to the mix.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the answer is pretty simple: Sample size, with a sprinkle of MLE thrown in. Ground balls are tougher to come by in MLB which accounts for the drop from his MiLB numbers. And then trying to compare his raw small sample size 2008 and 2009 GB rates without some regression is bound to cause a bit of head scratching. In a nutshell, I don&#8217;t think we ever really knew with certainty what his MLB GB% was going to be, and shouldn&#8217;t really be surprised by his numbers this season, especially if a little variance is added to the mix.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dave Allen</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/where-are-david-prices-grounders/#comment-90612</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Allen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 21:44:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=7889#comment-90612</guid>
		<description>I wrote the article, not Dave Cameron.  It is confusing with all the Daves around.

Good point about the small sample size.  You are right there is very little we can infer from those 14 innings.  But generally the expected groundball rate off a fastball varies inversely with the &#039;rise&#039; of the fastball.  I will dig up the reference for that, and if I cannot find one I have done the work and will post it here or at Baseball Analysts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wrote the article, not Dave Cameron.  It is confusing with all the Daves around.</p>
<p>Good point about the small sample size.  You are right there is very little we can infer from those 14 innings.  But generally the expected groundball rate off a fastball varies inversely with the &#8216;rise&#8217; of the fastball.  I will dig up the reference for that, and if I cannot find one I have done the work and will post it here or at Baseball Analysts.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: DR</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/where-are-david-prices-grounders/#comment-90609</link>
		<dc:creator>DR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 21:33:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=7889#comment-90609</guid>
		<description>It seems to go down as he rises through the ranks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems to go down as he rises through the ranks.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: AngMohClay</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/where-are-david-prices-grounders/#comment-90608</link>
		<dc:creator>AngMohClay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 21:29:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=7889#comment-90608</guid>
		<description>The sample size of 14.0 IP in the MLB in 2008 makes any analysis on GB% by pitch type unreliable.

This is an interesting question, and Mr. Cameron does not assert that the theory his 1.6 increased &quot;rise&quot; on the fastball is necessarily correct, but analysis on pitch type (which divides the small sample further by categorizing int by pitches) from a sample of 14.0 IP is meaningless.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The sample size of 14.0 IP in the MLB in 2008 makes any analysis on GB% by pitch type unreliable.</p>
<p>This is an interesting question, and Mr. Cameron does not assert that the theory his 1.6 increased &#8220;rise&#8221; on the fastball is necessarily correct, but analysis on pitch type (which divides the small sample further by categorizing int by pitches) from a sample of 14.0 IP is meaningless.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: RZ</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/where-are-david-prices-grounders/#comment-90574</link>
		<dc:creator>RZ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 19:21:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=7889#comment-90574</guid>
		<description>He just needs to throw his slider and other offspeed pitches more. A two seamer helps but if almost 90% of his pitches were fastballs like he did against the Angels, there is no reason to expect them not to sit on it and kill it for base hits.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He just needs to throw his slider and other offspeed pitches more. A two seamer helps but if almost 90% of his pitches were fastballs like he did against the Angels, there is no reason to expect them not to sit on it and kill it for base hits.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

