Comments on: You Still Do Not Appreciate Him Enough

By: Alireza

Alireza — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 11:04:19 +0000

I am not quite sure people got what I was saying. Do I think Ichiro is better than Albert Pujols? No. That would be stupid. Do I think Ichiro is an elite player who would be welcome on any team, on both sides of the ball? Definitely. Should he be in the Hall of Fame? Absolutely. His offensive and defensive combination is something rarely ever seen, and his ability to do the most basic of things in baseball, get hits, is greater than any of his contemporaries and among the best ever. That’s just common sense.

By: Bob

Bob — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 15:46:29 +0000

Good numbers for Suzuki despite a career worst LD% of 15.9%.

By: Actually

Actually — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 06:23:29 +0000

I mean, I don’t want to be too harsh or anything, but I guess I have a pet peeve about people having a pet peeve about less/fewer.

By: Actually

Actually — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 06:10:24 +0000

Please.

See http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/less

“Less” def. 6: “fewer: less than a dozen.”

Do you think that split infinitives are wrong, too?

By: cpebbles

cpebbles — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 04:14:09 +0000

See?

By: ACSguitar

ACSguitar — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 02:48:29 +0000

I’m convinced that the whole Fantasy Nerd side of this argument doesn’t exactly grasp the real value that ichiro brings to the game.

The guy is a top 10 hitter for average, OBP, SB, and ARM.

When he’s at the plate he barely ever strikes out. He ALWAYS puts the ball in play. People tend to forget about this. He could go 0-10 and make 9 productive outs. He moves people over. He works the count. he instills fear in pitchers.

The guy is an amazing yet atypical baseball player. Is he the best ever? No! But he is one of the most interesting and spectaularly gifted players of all time.

Speed doesn’t just mean stolen bases. It means forcing errors. Forcing balls do to a pitcher being nervous (ichiro causes nervous pitcher at bat and on the bases).

He’s the total package minus the power. He’s a 1st ballot hall of famer. I’d put him as an all around player against almost anyone out there.

the guy is a ball player. He may not fit into the 25 hr’s 100 RBI 10 SB catagory but he’s an invaluable member of MLB.

By: Mike I

Mike I — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 20:15:20 +0000

Or 0.9 WAR, equaling a worth of $3.9 million, for those of us who think BP stats are worthless and nonsensical nowadays.

By: don

don — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 18:09:12 +0000

Okay, I’ll explain the gold gloves comment a little more clearly.

Joe said that Ichiro is the “Jeter of the OF”. Jeter is below average defensively (for his position) but easily good enough offensively to overcome that and be pretty consistantly 4-7 wins above replacement for more than a decade. I think the stat community’s biggest problem with him is the fact that he’s tremendously overrated defensively because by the mainstream media because of the gold gloves – anyone who says he hasn’t had a great career is obviously wrong.

Ichiro was between above average and great defensively, depending whether he was playing RF or CF, so while he won an award for being the best fielder in years in which he wasn’t really at the top (’02, ’05, maybe some others) the gulf between the mainstream perception of his skills and his actual skills is not nearly so large as in Jeter’s case. I was using the gold gloves only to illustrate the mainstream ESPN type media’s perception of a player’s skills, and I do think they’re a pretty good judge of what sportswriters think for obvious reasons. If Ichiro’s overrated, and I’m not sure that he is, it’s not for the same reasons as Jeter. That’s all.

As an aside, do people actually dislike end of season awards or just think that they’re often awarded to undeserving players? I’m assuming the latter.

By: Joe R

Joe R — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 16:38:22 +0000

2007, Ramirez was a friggin dud. For a bp reference, he posted a super sweet -8 FRAA and .297 EqA, good for a 3.5 WARP-3 (on his DT card).

Okay so not a dud. But not exactly a superawesome $20 mil.

By: cpebbles

cpebbles — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 16:31:55 +0000

Google “ichiro best player” sometime. Proclamations of Ichiro as one of the best players in MLB history are frequent, and every time someone scoffs at that notion, it triggers the kind of overreaction seen here. Nobody ever denies that Ichiro plays consistently at an All-Star level and is at least a fringe MVP candidate in his best seasons.