Johnny Cueto For Cy Young

Yesterday, we rolled out Fielding Dependent Pitching in an effort to provide a more thorough evaluation of pitching and run prevention. Today, I want to talk about how FDP can be used to examine the Cy Young races, and specifically, why it illustrates that Johnny Cueto should be the frontrunner for the NL Cy Young Award.

Let’s just start by looking at the value stats of the top five candidates, side by side.

Name IP WAR RA9-Wins BIP-Wins LOB-Wins FDP-Wins
Clayton Kershaw 186.2 4.7 5.1 1.7 (1.3) 0.4
Johnny Cueto 181.2 4.6 6.4 0.2 1.6 1.8
R.A. Dickey 182.1 4.1 5.1 0.9 0.1 1.0
Matt Cain 182.0 3.5 5.1 1.5 0.1 1.6
Aroldis Chapman 64.0 3.5 3.5 0.4 (0.3) 0.1

You could make a case for some other guys on the periphery, including somewhat shocking entries from guys Kyle Lohse and Wade Miley, but in terms of people I think actually have a chance to win, it’s probably one of these five. Kershaw and Cueto grade out best in terms of WAR, but their lead over Dickey and Cain is slight, and of course both of them are known for being pitchers who outperform their FIP anyway. Chapman’s in the mix because he’s having one of the great relief seasons of all time, but I’m not going to spend too much time talking about him in this post because he doesn’t really have much of a case, given what his own teammate is doing in the rotation. So, really, let’s focus on the four starters.

WAR suggests its a pretty close race, with Kershaw and Cueto out in front. However, we’ve never intended for WAR to be a discussion-ender, with the leaderboards of that one stat being the standard for handing out awards, and there is no question that you should dive deeper into the issue that simply saying “Kershaw has the highest WAR, therefore he’s been the best.” And now, with FDP, we can more easily look at the differences in run prevention that aren’t so clearly the result of the pitcher, and decide how much credit we want to give them for those runs saved.

So, if you re-sort the table above by FDP, you’ll note that Cueto has produced the most extra wins above and beyond his FIP, coming in at +1.6 LOB-wins and +0.2 BIP-wins. Cain and his normal low-BABIP ways add +1.5 BIP-wins and +0.1 Lob-wins, while Dickey’s knuckler gets him +0.9 BIP-wins and +0.1 LOB-wins. With both Cain and Dickey, we have legitimate reasons to believe that their below average BABIPs are a direct result of a skill they possess, and so they likely should be given a large majority of the credit for their FDPs, which would push both of their adjusted WARs up around +5.0 wins.

With Kershaw, the story is more interesting, and forces us to look deeper into the causes of runner stranding. While Kershaw is also likely a lower BABIP guy — high strikeout flyball lefties do well in hit prevention historically — his BIP-wins and LOB-wins nearly offset, and Kershaw’s total FDP is just +0.4. In other words, it’s hard to make a case that Kershaw has performed significantly better than his FIP, even though he has one of the lowest BABIPs in the league.

Cueto, on the other hand, is essentially Kershaw’s equal in wins based on FIP, but has racked up +1.8 FDP-wins, and has done it in the exact opposite way of everyone else we’ve discussed. His +1.6 LOB-wins lead the National League, and suggests that Cueto may deserve more credit than his WAR suggests. But, before we just hand him that extra credit, we’ll want to know how he’s keeping opposing baserunners from scoring. In looking through his splits, the answer doesn’t immediately jump out at you.

Bases Empty: .235/.270/.317, .259 wOBA
Men On Base: .245/.338/.369, .294 wOBA
RISP: .246/.357/.371, .311 wOBA

Unlike with Jordan Zimmerman (#2 in the NL in LOB-wins), Cueto’s performance against hitters has not taken a significant uptick once he allows a baserunner. In fact, he gets quite a bit worse, as his FIP rises from 2.44 with the bases empty up to 4.63 with men in scoring position. And, his BABIPs are essentially even in all three situations, so we can’t explain his stranded runners through the sequencing of hit prevention.

However, there’s one thing that these splits don’t measure, and it happens to be the thing that Johnny Cueto is better at than anyone else in baseball – picking runners off.

Cueto’s pick-off move isn’t the stuff of legends yet, but it probably should be. The list of the top ten pickoffs by a pitcher this year includes nine left-handed pitchers and Johnny Cueto, and despite being right-handed, Cueto’s seven pickoffs are actually only one off the Major League lead (held by Kershaw and Ricky Romero). Cueto’s pick-off move is so good, he actually nailed two Giants in the same inning back in June, and because it’s fun, let’s take a look at those.

Okay, Melky Cabrera was leaning, and any pitcher can catch a guy leaning once in a while, right? Well, look what he does to Buster Posey not five minutes later.

Buster Posey has stolen one base this year. I’m pretty sure he wasn’t trying for one there – Cueto just spun around so quickly he caught Posey off guard and didn’t give him a chance to get back to the bag. And so, despite the fact that the three batters he faced in that inning went single-walk-deep flyball to center field, it was actually a 1-2-3 inning for Cueto, and no one even got into scoring position.

Cueto’s been doing this kind of thing all year long, and it’s gotten to the point where there’s no real point even trying to get much of a lead off first base, much less think about taking second. Opposing baserunners have managed one steal off Cueto all season, matching the same number of stolen bases that he allowed in 2011. In fact, for his career, opposing base stealers are just 14 for 41 against Cueto, an astounding 34% success rate. 28 major league pitchers have allowed more stolen bases this year than Cueto has in his entire career.

How big of a deal can holding runners on actually be? Well, consider a guy like Tim Lincecum, a right-hander with a lousy pickoff move who doesn’t hold runners all that well. Would-be basestealers are a perfect 18-for-18 off of him this year, and surprise surprise, he’s posted -1.2 LOB-wins this year. Not all of that can be attributed to his inability to hold runners, but even if we just take the linear weight value of those steals, that’s 17 extra bases advanced at 0.25 runs apiece, and eight fewer outs made on the bases against him at 0.50 runs apiece, so the gap between Cueto and Lincecum’s value simply on SB/CS is over eight runs, or nearly an entire win. And that presumes that the only value to be had from holding runners is through controlling steals or picking runners off, but it’s certainly possible that batters get better jumps off Lincecum than they do off Cueto, which could influence the frequency of double plays turned or their ability to go first to third on a base hit.

While Cueto’s never stranded runners at this level before, and it’s unlikely that his LOB-wins are entirely the result of his fearsome pickoff move, the reality is that he has demonstrated a real skill at runner stranding, and he’s been above average in LOB-wins every year of his career. Like we acknowledge that Dickey and Cain are likely influencing a decent amount of their hit prevention, we should also acknowledge that Cueto is influencing a large part of his runner stranding, and given that he also leads both of them in FIP, we should give Cueto enough credit for his FDP that he returns to the top of the heap in the Cy Young race once again.

While things can certainly change over the final month of the season, Cueto has established himself as the frontrunner, and should be the guy to beat at this point. His skills as a pitcher — and perhaps the best right-handed pickoff move we’ve seen in a very long time — have elevated him into the top tier of the National League hurlers, and unless Dickey or Cain close with a great final month, the Cy Young Award should end up in Cincinnati. It just belongs to their ace starter, not their ace reliever.



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Dave is the Managing Editor of FanGraphs.


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Nick
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Nick
3 years 10 months ago

Who has the best LH pickoff move?

ccoop
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ccoop
3 years 10 months ago

terry mulholland.

James
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James
3 years 10 months ago

Mulholland was good, but since the question is present tense, I’d nominate Buehrle.

On topic, doing what Cueto has done in terms of innings and W-L while putting up a sub-3 ERA in that park is certainly worthy of the award.

Schlom
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Schlom
3 years 10 months ago

You are right about Mulholland, his stolen base attempts against are almost unreal:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mulhote01.shtml#standard_fielding::none

40% more pickoffs than successful steals!

Doug B
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Doug B
3 years 10 months ago

As long as Mulholland was brought up…

go back to Paul Doyle circa 1970.

8 pickoffs in his career. 0 succesful steals.

Mac
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Mac
3 years 10 months ago

Greg Smith tied the pickoff record with 16 in 2008.

lester bangs
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lester bangs
3 years 10 months ago

WAR has no idea what to do with Posey, or catching defense, obviously.

White Blood Cells
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White Blood Cells
3 years 10 months ago

This is a great article. I’m really digging FDP.

Brian
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Brian
3 years 10 months ago

Cueto is an expert at pulling off the “balk move” without the umps calling it. Left foot moves first, w/ heel coming up. He executes it so fluidly/rapidly that he gets away with it.

Justin
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Justin
3 years 10 months ago

Yep you can see it pretty clearly in the first GIF if you focus on his left knee.

Brandon
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Brandon
3 years 10 months ago

Agreed, in the first GIF especially, his left leg was definitely moving as if he was coiling for his delivery. But kudos to him. Andy Pettitte has balked nearly his entire career.

Danny
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Danny
3 years 10 months ago

Yes, I was going to post that in the first GIF, it looked like he balked but you beat me to it.

EmanRedsFan
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EmanRedsFan
3 years 10 months ago

Every lefty in the game nowadays uses a “balk move”

RMR
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RMR
3 years 10 months ago

I wonder if using FIP and then having LOB as part of the FDP essentially double counts. That is to say, I imagine that HR rates and LOB% are highly correlated. Allow lots of homers and your FIP will go up and your LOB% will go down and vice versa.

Johnny Cueto gets both groundballs and controls the running game. But he’s also excellent at suppressing homers — and he’s getting double credit for that.

Jonathan
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Jonathan
3 years 10 months ago

I think my favorite part of the pickoffs is that he’s got a RH 1B too. It takes a certain level of badass to pick righty off with a right handed 1B. Brings back memories of Game 2 of the ’07 WS with Papelbon (A guy with no pickoff whatsoever) gunning it to Youkilis to get Holliday.

Scott
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Scott
3 years 10 months ago
Oliver
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Oliver
3 years 10 months ago

This year’s Cy Young requires no analysis. R.A. Dickey, just for being R.A. Dickey.

Ben
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Ben
3 years 10 months ago

Clayton Kershaw has picked off the most guys and his LOB wins are (1.3)?

Frank
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Frank
3 years 10 months ago

Yeah, I don’t get this part

Matthias
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Member
3 years 10 months ago

Kershaw’s splits suggest he gets even better with runners on base and in scoring position. Being a pickoff artist as well, there’s obviously something else hurting his LOB runs. I just can’t figure out what…

Bip
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Member
Bip
3 years 10 months ago

Sac flies and RBI ground outs? It seems like those things don’t happen enough for it to have a significant effect on LOB% but it’s worth considering.

Frank
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Frank
3 years 10 months ago

Hmmm, pretty weird that Kershaw would get penalized because of Juan Rivera, Dee Gordon, and other subpar defenders on the Dodgers

Snowblind
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Snowblind
3 years 10 months ago

Looking forward to the AL equivalent of this article, as I wonder what it does to separate the Felix / Verlander / Price / Weaver pack.

Bip
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Member
Bip
3 years 10 months ago

Dave might have to excuse himself from that one.

Bryan
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3 years 10 months ago

I’m no Dave Cameron, but I wrote exactly the piece you’re asking for after I read Dave’s piece about FDP yesterday.

http://replacementlevel.wordpress.com/2012/08/30/fdp-and-king-felix/

In fact, I’d planned to write this piece about Cueto tonight, but it would have been the same article Dave wrote, minus the situational splits,embedded GIFs, and general wisdom about LOB-wins.

Cole
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Cole
3 years 10 months ago

Weaver isn’t even in the top five for AL Cy Young.

Jon
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Jon
3 years 10 months ago

Weaver isn’t even in the top five for AL Cy Young.

Rex Manning Day
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Rex Manning Day
3 years 10 months ago

Leaving Strasburg out of the analysis seems like a missed opportunity. I assume he was left out because he’s getting shut down, which will ultimately hold him back on the value stats compared to others. But his current stats put him in contention, and I think he would have made for an interesting comparison here because of his FDP numbers.

Strasburg’s FDP stats are actually in the negative. His BIP might be tossed up to luck, but his LOB is perhaps tied to his inexperience. The Nats as a team haven’t been good at dealing with runners this year, and Strasburg in particular might be having trouble. So whereas FDP reveals additional value in Cueto’s performance, it actually reveals a flaw in Strasburg’s.

So while I agree that Strasburg probably won’t be in the actual CY race because he’ll miss the last month, I think he would have made for an interesting comparison in an analysis like this.

Dan
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Dan
3 years 10 months ago

Ended Jason LaRue’s career in a fit of manic rage, and no one ever talks about it for some reason. He got a 7-game suspension, and all anyone wants to talk about is how the penalties aren’t strict enough for PED users.

He ends a guy’s career, and Brett Myers physically assaults his wife in public, and yet the fans reserve their boos for Ryan Braun. Awesome.

Desertfox
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Desertfox
3 years 10 months ago

Are we still on about that? If you must know, Cueto gets booed by the “best fans in baseball” whenever he is in St. Louis.

Wat
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Wat
3 years 10 months ago

And they’re wrong to do so?

Desertfox
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Desertfox
3 years 10 months ago

Who said that they were wrong to do so? My point was that he does get booed.

Jason LaRue
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Jason LaRue
3 years 10 months ago

Cueto’s “kick” was just 1 in 18 concussions LaRue suffered. To blame him for him stopping playing is foolish and naive.

DJG
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DJG
3 years 10 months ago

Oh, so he kicked a player with a prior history of concussions. That’s much better.

tyke
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tyke
3 years 10 months ago

and a brawl started by a st. louis catcher…

GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat
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GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat
3 years 10 months ago

Don’t try to reason with WLB’s fans. Their players can do no wrong.

Monroe
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3 years 10 months ago

Manic rage? Really? Try panic. Cueto was trapped against the screen by a fight he had nothing to do with. He panicked. Was it the right thing to do? No. Was it a mistake? Absolutely. But to characterize this unfortunate episode as “manic rage” speaks to an inability see beyond the prism of your Cardinals fandom.

Meanwhile, Jason LaRue was 36 years old. He sported a line of .196/.274/.321 at the time of that fight. His 12 year MLB career was already done. May it rest in peace.

Bip
Member
Member
Bip
3 years 10 months ago

Wait, so a proposed explanation for Cueto’s extra LOB wins are that he has a great pickoff move which has led him to have almost as many pickoffs as a guy whose negative LOB value is left totally unexplained? If Kershaw’s negative LOB value is due to bad luck, which I think it is, being as this year he has easily the lowest LOB% of his career, then that accounts for the gap between Cueto and Kershaw.

Gavin
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Gavin
3 years 10 months ago

Does it matter who started it? The bottom line is you don’t kick a person in the had with baseball cleats. That’s basic morality.

GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat
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GlennBraggsSwingAndMissBrokenBat
3 years 10 months ago

You do realize that Cueto was the smallest guy on the field and had a bunch of angry mouth breathers coming after him, right?

He had every right to defend himself. No offense to LaRue, but he was one of the aggressors.

Mark McGwire's Steroid-driven 70 homers
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Mark McGwire's Steroid-driven 70 homers
3 years 10 months ago

Keep dredging the brawl up and trying to play the victim Cards fans. It just makes you look weak and even more whiny than usual.

SurprMan
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SurprMan
3 years 10 months ago

To add to GlennBraggs: Cueto was backed against the brick backstop with a crowd surging on him; at that point survival instincts kick (ha) in, and that makes people do crazy things.

To imply that Cueto was purposefully trying to break LaRue’s skull with his flailing legs is just ludicrous.

Josh
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Josh
3 years 10 months ago

Kris Medlen’s has quite a pick off too.

Josh
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Josh
3 years 10 months ago

Got not has.

ODawg
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ODawg
3 years 10 months ago

I’m having trouble accepting that a pitcher should get more credit for quality of LOB- over quality of BIP-, as Dave suggested in a previous article and implies in this one. I’m far from the foremost expert as I skipped “constructing pitcher evaluation metrics 101” and know little of linear weights. In my amateur opinion, it seems that we are looking at something like: “quality of inducing contact that produces outs, mitigated by non-pitcher-controlled results of weakly hit balls finding holes and subpar defensive play” (BIP-), as opposed to “quality of ‘buckling down’ on hitters, mitigated by many, many non-pitcher-controlled factors involved with runners not scoring once they are in base.” (LOB-)
Agree/disagree?

Izzy Hechkoff
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Izzy Hechkoff
3 years 10 months ago

Are Cain’s numbers park adjusted? 5.1 RA/9 Wins seems to be too high.

Patrick
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Patrick
3 years 10 months ago

Dave I appreciate the analysis, but you do realize that you just showed Johnny Cueto balking that baserunner into making a mistake? It is illegal for the front knee to move first. This move is taught to every right handed pitcher in college and/or high school. The skill comes in deceiving the umpire into thinking its a legal move while deceiving the baserunner into seeing the front knee move first.

Either way it is a balk, and thus I do not believe should be credited as a good pickoff move. Is a player more skilled because he cheats more effectively?

deflated
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deflated
3 years 10 months ago

That is a great pickoff move. How is this different from selling the umpire on a pitch 2 inches off the plate as a strike? Playing to the limits of the rules as defined by the umpire is a fundamental of baseball.

eric
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eric
3 years 10 months ago

Cueto wears his hat sideways. That should disqualify him, it is obnoxious.

Dave G.
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3 years 10 months ago

Cueto’s had a pretty cake schedule, he gets to face the Cubs and Astros several times, plus lower tier AL teams. And he faced Pitt early in the season when they couldn’t hit anything. Dickey’s struck out more and works in front of the more defensively challenged team. He’s got more Ks, more complete games, he’s been more dominant. Cueto’s had the greater amount of babip luck, and wouldn’t be surprised to see him with a couple bad starts down the stretch. FIP is unfair to knuckleballers, I vote Dickey.

bstar
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bstar
3 years 10 months ago

Well, B-Ref’s rWAR is saying the same thing. Cueto’s ERA+ is 170, Dickey is at 137. Cueto has 6.0 rWAR and Dickey 4.0.

big red machine
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big red machine
3 years 10 months ago

Cueto plays in Great American as his home park and has a better ERA on top of it… case closed, IMO
(and BTW, Dickey has had more BABIP luck this year)

Dr. Chaleeko
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Dr. Chaleeko
3 years 10 months ago

Dave mentioned in a previous article that because we can’t accurately partition credit between defense and pitching, FG chose not to include BIP-wins and LOB-wins in WAR. But since we can accurately give credit to pitchers for pickoffs can’t we roll that info into WAR? That might have the effect of reducing the number of unaccounted-for runs between RA9-wins and WAR.

Dr. Chaleeko
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Dr. Chaleeko
3 years 10 months ago

To clarify, by “that” info I meant pick offs. Basically pull it out of LOB-Wins and put it into WAR in some way.

Dave G.
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3 years 10 months ago

Also, that pick off is clearly a balk. His front knee bends before he lifts back foot off the rubber. Can’t do that. It’s deceptive, because it’s illegal. Dickey also has an amazing pick off move that’s a borderline balk.

Table
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Table
3 years 10 months ago

“and unless Dickey or Cain close with a great final month, the Cy Young Award should end up in Cincinnati.”

Any reason why Kershaw is left off here?

Bip
Member
Member
Bip
3 years 10 months ago

Realistically he’s not going to win the Cy Young this year. The award goes to the player with the best narrative, and Cain, Cueto and Dickey are the ones who people have been talking about all year. All people can say regarding Kershaw this year is that he’s not the same guy he was last year. Also, wins are the still the biggest statistical contributor to that narrative, so unless Kershaw wins enough games to catch up to them, he won’t be in the discussion.

bstar
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bstar
3 years 10 months ago

“Chapman’s in the mix because he’s having one of the great relief seasons of all time.”

Where is Craig Kimbrel in your evaluation? The ONLY thing Chapman has done better than Kimbrel this year is pitch more innings. Chapman has gotten tons of press this year for his strikeouts, but Kimbrel has surpassed Aroldis in both K/9(16.1 vs. 15.9) and K%(49.4 vs. 46.5). Kimbrel is precipitously close to striking out every other batter he’s faced this year. Needless to say, both these marks are currently MLB all-time records.

Craig Kimbrel is also currently holding MLB single-season records for BA against(.117), SLG against(.160), OPS against(.339), and OPS+ against(-5).

All these marks surpass Chapman’s numbers. Kimbrel also has a better FIP(0.81 vs. 1.12) and ERA+(360 vs. 335). But hey, since Cincinnati has had more save opportunities this year than Atlanta, let’s continue with the fallacy that Aroldis Chapman has been better than Craig Kimbrel in 2012.

SurprMan
Member
SurprMan
3 years 10 months ago

I was going to argue that it is certainly up for debate that Chapman is better than Kimbrel rather than a “fallacy”, but then I looked at the numbers, and the case for Chapman over Kimbrel is pretty strong.

Chapman leads Kimbrel in WPA (3.17 to 2.77), and by a wide margin in fWAR (3.5 to 2.6). Plus, the K/9 and K% are nearly identical (Kimbrel just surpassed Chapman this past week in the former- expect them to bounce back and forth for the lead over the last month of the season).

Yes, it’s not Kimbrel’s fault he hasn’t pitched as many innings, but that’s a nonsensical argument for superiority when Chapman has pitched 33% more innings at a nearly identical effectiveness. By this logic, a pitcher who throws a single inning, strikes out the side, and then sits out the rest of the year should win the CYA.

SurprMan
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SurprMan
3 years 10 months ago

I should add: I do agree that Kimbrel should definitely have at least been mentioned in the article.

I Agree Guy
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I Agree Guy
3 years 10 months ago

But hey, since you managed to completely ignore the quantity each player has contributed, let’s continue the “fallacy” a little longer.

I Agree Guy
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I Agree Guy
3 years 10 months ago

And hey, this reply belonged under bstar, not gweedoh.

bstar
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bstar
3 years 10 months ago

Uhhhh, I specifically mentioned that the only thing Chapman has done better than Kimbrel is “pitch more innings”, which is true.

Alex
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Alex
3 years 10 months ago

It looks like Cueto balks when he picked off Melky.

beeviss
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beeviss
3 years 10 months ago

Pretty observant to call balk on the first gif. Now, watch it in full speed and tell me you see the same thing.

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