It’s Time to Trade Troy Tulowitzki

You probably enjoyed your holiday weekend. I watched a good deal of Colorado Rockies baseball, so you tell me which of us had a more productive few days. It’s difficult to remember a time where I’ve seen more incompetent baseball in such a short span. It’s not that Colorado lost three of four, because the Dodgers are a more talented team on a hot streak and it’s not fair to have to face Clayton Kershaw and Zack Greinke back-to-back. Rather, it’s how the Rockies looked while losing.

Three days in a row, Colorado allowed the Dodgers innings in which they batted around. In the seventh inning on Saturday, the Rockies went through three relievers and seven Dodger hitters before finally getting an out — and turning an 8-2 lead into an 8-7 squeaker. On Sunday, Brooks Brown, who is apparently a real person, entered in relief of Yohan Flande, who is also apparently a real person. Brown faced Miguel Rojas — a .238/.305/.297 hitter in parts of nine minor league seasons and a .230/.288/.246 hitter in his first big league season — with the bases loaded. He hit Rojas to force in a run.

Or, if you prefer pictures, here’s Franklin Morales throwing a slider while Wilin Rosario was expecting a pitchout:

morales_wild-pitch

Here’s Rosario on Sunday, after having received a throw from Nolan Arenado, just barely missing a sliding Adrian Gonzalez. This wouldn’t be a big deal if not for the fact that Rosario inexplicably was attempting to tag the runner on a bases-loaded force play.

rosario_plate_FG

Obviously, a lot of this is for entertainment effect. Perhaps that’s unfair. We talk about “sample size” a lot here, and with good reason. No one play or one game or even one series should be taken as the story of a team’s entire season. But of course, it’s not just about what happened this weekend. It’s that the Rockies now have lost 17 of 20 and are playing so badly the Diamondbacks are merely a half-game away from escaping the National League West’s basement. In fact, the Rockies are only two games ahead of the Astros for the most losses in baseball. They’re at 0% in our playoff odds. Think about that: There is not a single imaginable scenario for the Rockies to make the playoffs.

This team is not working out, just like the team hasn’t worked for all but two seasons this century. And so the “maybe they should trade Troy Tulowitzki” noises are popping up once again. The difference is that this time, Tulowitzki seems open to the idea. And he’s not wrong to be. Now — or at least this coming winter — is the time.

It’s difficult to argue that Tulowitzki will be more valuable than he is right now. He’s not only the National League’s best hitter, he does so while providing elite defense at the most valuable position. His worst month this season so far, June, saw him post a 155 wRC+. For those who think that he’s a Coors Field creation — and yeah, a .522 OBP at home is absurd — his 132 wRC+ road line would still make him a top-35 hitter and a top-two shortstop. The $114 million he’s guaranteed in the next five years will price out some smaller-market teams, but for a guy who is pretty clearly the second-best player in baseball behind Mike Trout, it’s almost a bargain. Should he keep this up all season, he’ll prove to be a pretty entertaining test case for the ludicrous “only winning teams can have MVPs” debate.

But nearly as important: He’s healthy, and he’s months away from his 30th birthday. Tulowitzki has had five trips to the disabled list in his career, and innumerable bumps and bruises otherwise, including a few days missed this weekend with groin soreness. Despite that, he’s he’s managed at least 500 plate appearances in five different seasons. Still, rare is the player who enters their 30s and manages to become healthier.

Despite all that, the Rockies are on track to finish third or lower for the fifth season in a row. Having one of the best players in the game has not brought success. Now, of course, Rockies fans will likely refute the idea of moving him. The team, they argue, has been destroyed by injuries and isn’t this bad. And they’re right. No team can be this bad, and no team should have Flande, Jair Jurrjens and Christian Friedrich making starts within close proximity of one another. Among starting pitchers alone, Jhoulys Chacin, Brett Anderson, Jordan Lyles, Eddie Butler and Tyler Chatwood are on the disabled list. That’s an entire rotation, and outfielders Michael Cuddyer and Carlos Gonzalez — along with reliever Nick Masset — join them. Arenado, Josh Rutledge, Boone Logan and Rosario are healthy now, but they missed chunks of time earlier. It’s difficult to point anywhere other than injuries as the root cause of the demise of the 2014 Rockies.

When those guys are healthy, this is obviously a different team, though not quite as good as the version that was eight games above .500 in early May. (Shockingly, Charlie Blackmon‘s .389/.434/.642 April has been .256/.303/.388 since; he is now barely above a league-average hitter.) But of course, it really doesn’t matter that health has been the main issue. The 2014 season is dead. Over. A failure. Even the complete roster at full strength won’t change that. The only question that should be considered now is whether the future Rockies contend?

* * *

For Colorado, the idea of rebuilding is distasteful. This franchise is supposed to be on the verge of the next generation of young Rockies. Arenado, 23, is already there and a star. Rex Brothers is 26. Rosario is just 25. Outfielder Corey Dickerson, with a career 132 wRC+ in just under a full season of play, is 25. Chatwood is only 24; Lyles and Tyler Matzek are 23. Butler is 23. Jon Gray is 22. Kyle Parker is 24. David Dahl is 20, though still only in Single-A. There’s a lot of good young talent here. Ideally, Tulowitzki is complementing this group, not leaving it.

But then, reality. Cuddyer is going to be a free agent. Butler made one major league start before going down with a shoulder injury, one that thankfully seems like it won’t require surgery. Gray has been more adequate than dominant in Double-A. It’s possible both are in the 2015 Rockies rotation, yet foolish to count on them both to be above-average immediately. Jorge de la Rosa is going to be a free agent. Morales will be a free agent. Anderson has a $12 million club option that seems unlikely to be exercised. Juan Nicasio has been awful this year, and has rarely ever been good for sustained stretches. Chacin has “fraying in his rotator cuff,” is likely out for the year, and could be a non-tender candidate. Every other young pitcher mentioned above — no matter how talented — has had health concerns. Is that a winning rotation in 2015?

There are a ton of “ifs.”  If Chatwood and Lyles stay healthy and productive and if Butler’s arm is OK and if Gray pitches to his potential and if Nicasio and Chacin pitch like the best versions of themselves and not the messes they’ve been this year, then maybe there’s something. Of course, all of that happening at once seems incredibly unlikely. And even if it does, there’s no one there who compares to Kershaw or Greinke or Madison Bumgarner. Every team can play the “if” game, of course, but most other teams that fancy themselves contenders can point to at least one or two near-certainties. The Rockies rotation can’t.

Remember when the Rockies were winning early this year? It took completely unsustainable performances. Blackmon was hitting out of his mind. Justin Morneau had a 158 April wRC+. Tulowitzki had a ludicrous 214 April wRC+. Lyles somehow turned a 4.66 K/9 in April into a 2.70 ERA. Injuries or not, these things were never going to keep up, and they didn’t.

The idea of taking 90% of the same roster into next year, hoping for better health and continued unsustainable production over a long period, and making it a winner, seems unrealistic. And in the meantime, Tulowitzki will be 31 with plenty of additional opportunities to have seriously injured himself and destroyed his value. There’s also a near certainty he won’t be hitting as well as he is right now. Who could?

Maybe it’s less about whether the Rockies can afford to trade Tulowitzki, and more about whether they can afford not to. It hasn’t worked with him so far, and with Josh Rutledge only 25 and shortstop prospects Trevor Story and Rosell Herrera in the system, they have alternatives. With the state of offense in baseball being what it is — and the trade interest should Tulowitzki suddenly appear on the market — might this team might not be better off with a ton of salary saved and high-end, nearly-ready prospects in town? If the prospects are the right ones, of a similar age to the early 20s group mentioned above, this isn’t an Astros-style rebuild. It’s selling high on a very valuable piece to improve other areas that may not be able to support that very valuable piece.

* * *

As for likely trade partners, that’s a different discussion entirely. Both New York clubs could use him, though the Yankees might not have the prospects; the Mets would have to destroy its young pitching core. Detroit has an obvious hole at shortstop, and an owner with bottomless pockets. The Mariners badly need to make an offensive splash, and could easily replace or trade Brad Miller at shortstop. The Cardinals always appear in these rumors. Maybe the Cubs want yet another shortstop. If the Red Sox could do it without including Xander Bogaerts, imagine that left side. If some of these teams may not have the right prospects for the Rockies, well, that’s why three-way trades exist.

The specifics don’t matter yet, though, and you could probably make most of this same argument for Gonzalez. Of course the public-relations aspect would be painful. But it happens. Things can’t stay the same. There’s no point in letting Tulowitzki spend his early-30s in a situation that isn’t likely to be a winning one simply over concerns about his legacy in Denver.

Of course, a Tulowitzki trade perhaps could open a wormhole. Maybe that puts Cuddyer, if healthy, De la Rosa and LaTroy Hawkins (who all should be traded this year, no matter what) on the move, plus Gonzalez and Morneau. Maybe ownership decides it has had enough of the bizarre Dan O’Dowd-Bill Geivett pairing. There’s a lot of ways this could go. Whether it’s now or this winter, it’s time.



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Mike Petriello used to write here, and now he does not. Find him at @mike_petriello or MLB.com.


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Jose
Guest
Jose
2 years 2 months ago

The Yankees should just ship all those international players they just signed to Colorado.

werthless
Guest
werthless
2 years 2 months ago

Tulowitzki for Urias + Seager… who says no?

Obviously, LA would rather not include both, but doesn’t a trade to LA make sense for both teams?

Shauncore
Member
Shauncore
2 years 2 months ago

Think Tulo might be worth more than that.

Tulo is projected to be a 4-5 win player the next few years.

Urias is a really good prospect but is 17 years old and doesn’t really profile as front line pitcher and is probably at least 3 years away.

Seager is likely to move off SS to 3B, but the bat will play at either.

Maybe include Pederson and you’re getting there, but Tulo is an elite talent and should command a giant haul even with his older age given his skill level and contract status.

Moosehog
Guest
Moosehog
2 years 2 months ago

Dodgers won’t (and shouldn’t) include Urias + Seager + Pederson in a trade for anyone. Not even Babe Ruth in his prime.

Bip
Member
Member
Bip
2 years 2 months ago

Those three are all considered top-20 prospects by both BA and BP in their midseason rankings, which marks an improvement for all three. Given their recent rise in status, I wouldn’t consider Tulo to be worth all three. Maybe two and a supporting piece, like Chris Reed. I would think with that package, the Rockies should also throw in a big-league reliever.

Nickname Damur
Guest
Nickname Damur
2 years 2 months ago

“Dodgers won’t (and shouldn’t) include Urias + Seager + Pederson in a trade for anyone. Not even Babe Ruth in his prime.”

Ladies and gentlemen, a new candidate for 2014’s prestigious “Almost Inconceivably Overvaluing Prospects Award”.

Stank Asten
Guest
Stank Asten
2 years 2 months ago

Are you nuts? Of course the Dodgers would pull the trigger on Seager-Urias-Joc for Tulo. How is that even a question?

ivdown
Guest
ivdown
2 years 2 months ago

Dodgers should say no in that case.

They might as well give Hanley the extension, get (likely) less production but still the second best offensive production from SS in baseball while keeping their farm in tact.

Sofa King
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Sofa King
2 years 2 months ago

I’m sure the Bluejays would offer Ricky Romero

Jeff Luhnow
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Jeff Luhnow
2 years 2 months ago

The haul will be huge.

Pale Hose
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Pale Hose
2 years 2 months ago

You should check and see if Dominguez and a reliever gets it done.

Mike Rizzo
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Mike Rizzo
2 years 2 months ago

Why overpay?

Christian
Guest
Christian
2 years 2 months ago

Would a package of Brad Miller, Taijuan Walker, and James Paxton (as a PTBNL) get the Mariners in the ballpark or will it have to be a package that includes D.J. Peterson?

Bill Bavasi
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Bill Bavasi
2 years 2 months ago

Only if I can also include Seager and Michael Saunders

johndango
Guest
2 years 2 months ago

Oh Bill, you should probably also include Jones and Zunino too.

Emcee Peepants
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Emcee Peepants
2 years 2 months ago

They obviously need to include DJ Peterson so they can move him to SS, pair him with DJ LeMaheiu up the middle, call it “The Turntable”, and watch the marketing dollars roll in.

joser
Guest
joser
2 years 2 months ago

And everytime they flub a double-play, the PA can play “Drop the Base(ball)”

John Elway
Member
2 years 2 months ago

Laughing myself horse on this one.

jdbolick
Member
Member
2 years 2 months ago

No.

Balthazar
Guest
2 years 2 months ago

Hard to imagine a Mariners’ deal getting done without one of Walker or Paxton in it. I wouldn’t move either, as their ceilings are as high as it gets, they’re young, and they’re inexpensive.

An offer to explore would be more on the order of Brad Miller, Nick Franklin, Victor Sanchez, and Yoervis Medina. I don’t really want to see _either_ Miller or Franklin moved, but Tulo is a special talent, and Franklin anyway has no place to play in the organization. A ready-made keystone combo that can be plugged right in, both of them better than Routledge. Miller himself may be a 5 win player this year, despite his present batting average. Sanchez isn’t having a great year, but then again he’s 19 years old in AA and gives them depth in the rotation behind guys Colorado has to be counting on already for their front of the rotation arms (whether or not that is wise). Medina doesn’t have great command, but he’s an extreme ground ball pitcher with hard stuff and the stamina to close or set up who’d look great coming out of the Rockies bullpen right now, and the Mariners have plenty of other bullpen arms.

I really doubt that Colorado moves the best player drafted in their history, and the face of their franchise. And if they do, it’s hard to see them taking a package like the one just described because ‘there’s nobody famous in it.’ And that’s the problem. Colorado could move Tulo for a very good package, but that would be a rational decision, as as has been said those are few and far between in matters of this kid.

The Mariners shouldn’t swap the farm for Tulo, though. He has missed time, and will miss more. He’s a franchise-changer if he’s playing, and that would be great. If he’s out . . . don’t bet the farm, is all. But the Mariners have an ownership structure with suddenly short pockets who’ve already spent normal cash flow on Felix, and anticipated all of their TV revenue to pay Cano. How to PAY Tulo, too? So I really don’t see this ever happening.

Stan Gable
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Stan Gable
2 years 2 months ago

‘Brad Miller, Nick Franklin, Victor Sanchez, and Yoervis Medina.’

You serious, Clark?

TheOther
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TheOther
2 years 2 months ago

I Trade one of Walker/Paxton, but not both. It probably takes Walker, and, for once, I’m fine with that. This year proves what everyone says about Pitching prospects: they get hurt. There is just no sure bet with them, and when you have a chance to turn one into a sure thing (Tulo is as sure as it gets…), then you do it. Prospects are prospects, remember—they are not major league commodities yet, and once they become MLB commodities, the chances are overwhelming that they will be significantly less valuable than someone like Tulowitski, who is in the top 1% of all baseball talent world-wide.

I love our prospects, and I think they’re as good as it gets, but the very word “prospect” is wrought with uncertainty. Dustin Ackley, anyone? No? You’ve seen too much already? The guy was considered “can’t miss” by EVERYONE. HE is just one example of thousands.

I package: Walker, Franklin, Miller, and two PTBNL throw-ins for Tulowiski without hesitation—and I am one who tends to overvalue our own guys. I think Miller will become an above-average SS in the near future. I think Franklin’s bat sticks at 2B for a long time. I think Walker has ace potential. I give them all up right now for a guy who is proven to be the best player at the most valuable position in the game, and who has 6 years of great baseball left in him. Put him behind (in front of?) Cano and go to the playoffs for the next 6 years. THAT is what this is about—not prospects.

jdbolick
Member
Member
2 years 2 months ago

The question is why would Colorado accept an offer like that.

Boris Chinchilla
Guest
Boris Chinchilla
2 years 2 months ago

That would be bigger Seattle trouncing of Denver than the Super Bowl was, HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

angelo
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angelo
2 years 2 months ago

What competitive team could actually put together a fair package for him? The Cubs, Astros, and maybe the Twins could do it, but I don’t see them gutting their farm system anytime soon.

Anon
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Anon
2 years 2 months ago

The Cardinals could, but they don’t need a SS.

Dan
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Dan
2 years 2 months ago

Why limit it to competitive teams? Tulowitzki isn’t a rental.

Shauncore
Member
Shauncore
2 years 2 months ago

Right but at 30 years old you’ve gotta imagine he’s nearing or at the peak of his win curve likely.

Relying upon him 2-3 years from now you could be getting a different Tulo.

Cicero
Guest
Cicero
2 years 2 months ago

Fair but even at age 35-36 in 2020(14m) and 2021(15M) he is being paid less than the 35 and 36yo starting 3B in the All-Star game this year. thats before adjusting for salary inflation

Henry Newhouse
Guest
Henry Newhouse
2 years 2 months ago

No way the Twins trade for him. This team needs more than a superstar SS to make it competitive again, and the price would probably be Buxton or Sano along with a pair of our other top prospects.

JaysFan
Guest
JaysFan
2 years 2 months ago

What about the Blue Jays? Aaron Sanchez and Daniel Norris fit COL’s timeline well. Both are top 50 prospects and get tons of GB’s (fit Coors well). They could round out the package with a few position prospects. Barreto + Pompey would certainly be of interest (maybe not for Tulo though!)

On The Jays’ side Edwin – Reyes – Tulo – Lawrie would be the best infield in baseball. They’d be a pitcher away from legit contender.

Sandy
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Sandy
2 years 2 months ago

Is there any team in baseball that has a hole at shortstop and the prospect haul this would require? The Tigers and Yankees are obvious landing points, but neither has a particularly good farm system, nor any top-tier pitching prospects.

chrstn41
Member
2 years 2 months ago

The Pirates…but they can’t pay him.

Huh...
Guest
Huh...
2 years 2 months ago

On that note, why not the Reds?

Walt Jocketty
Guest
Walt Jocketty
2 years 2 months ago

As much as I like Tulo….no way would I trade for him . A trade would have to include Bob Stevenson, Jesse Winker, Tony C, and two other B-C prospects. No way you gut the farm for him. The Reds need Bob Steve because one or two of their correct SP’s will be leaving after 2015. This would get you a WS opportunity in 2014 or 2015, but after that the Reds would be screwed.

PWR
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PWR
2 years 2 months ago

boston is the team. can pay Tulo. trade Xander or move him to 3B

JaysFan
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JaysFan
2 years 2 months ago

BOS isnt landing Tulo w/o Xander.

arc
Guest
arc
2 years 2 months ago

No reason to believe that. The midseason rankings have two top 15 prospects in their system and the preseason rankings had 6-9 in the top 100. There’s more than enough depth to make the move without Bogearts.

Anthony Rescan
Member
Anthony Rescan
2 years 2 months ago

Mookie, Owens, Webster, and Swihart isn’t bad. I tend to agree though. If Taveras, Walker, et al. have to be on the table then so does Xander.

Frank
Guest
Frank
2 years 2 months ago

Obvious answer, the Pirates.

Reese
Guest
Reese
2 years 2 months ago

The Pirates would upgrade over Mercer and have the deep, balanced farm to pull this off. The question is whether they could afford Tulo’s $20M salary and that answer is most likely “no”.

Zack
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Zack
2 years 2 months ago

The Mets have the prospects, and the whole. Unfortunately, and this is absurd, it’s not clear they would have the money to pay him.

They could go to Colorado and say here’s Syndergaard, Wheeler, Plawecki, and one other guy. That definitely gets it done.

Za
Guest
Za
2 years 2 months ago

Wheeler/Plawecki/Smith/Reynolds/Fulmer could be a workable package; it may need to be tweaked but you’ve got your pedigree’d starter with upside and cost-control, a Top-3 catching prospect in baseball, a guy hitting like .380 at SS in AAA, a 1st round pick with upside, and a 1s picking up steam after facing injuries. I’d throw in Cecchini if they want another prospect.

The Mets have enough money to pay Tulo’s contract if they win baseball games. Adding Tulo and Harvey while subtracting Wheeler would still result in a better clubs on both sides and it does seem like the Mets could pull off the trade without touching guys like Herrera, Nimmo, Matz, and Syndergaard.

jdbolick
Member
Member
2 years 2 months ago

That doesn’t get it done. Wheeler is not an ace and none of the others are impressive enough individually to get close. A couple of two star prospects aren’t equal to a four star.

Stan Gable
Guest
Stan Gable
2 years 2 months ago

Yeah, I don’t see Zach Wheeler fronting a deal like that deal either. I can’t imagine nay non-Mets fans do.

JAMill
Guest
JAMill
2 years 2 months ago

As a Mets fan, I’d do this deal in a heartbeat which leads me to believe that no one else would.

The Mets have a good bit of depth in the farm system, but outside of Syndergaard no one has an “elite” ceiling, depending on how you feel about Wheeler.

All those guys mentioned have a chance to be productive MLB players but probably not the “A” level talent required to land Tulo.

attgig
Guest
attgig
2 years 2 months ago

a little to early to say “Wheeler is not an ace”…. geez, everyone’s spoiled by the Harvey effect.

jdbolick
Member
Member
2 years 2 months ago

No, it isn’t. Wheeler has never profiled as an ace. We can generally make these determinations before a guy even reaches the major leagues, which is why you hear some prospects described as a potential #1 (Giolito, etc) and some described as potential #2s or #3s (Wheeler, etc).

Cliff
Guest
Cliff
2 years 2 months ago

Severino is a top tier Yankees pitching prospect, but not close to MLB ready

Shauncore
Member
Shauncore
2 years 2 months ago

And a top tier Yankees prospect is probably a mid tier prospect for basically every other org.

Cliff
Guest
Cliff
2 years 2 months ago

That’s not what I meant. Severino is a top 50 mlb prospect. I will direct you to this link: http://www.pinstripealley.com/yankees-prospects-minor-leagues/2014/7/7/5876801/yankees-prospects-luis-severino-baseball-prospectus-top-50

tekkk
Guest
tekkk
2 years 2 months ago

Like Joba, Montero, and Hughes were right?

Cliff
Guest
Cliff
2 years 2 months ago

Well obviously the rankings guys should hire you, since you have cracked the code and understand that no Yankees should be in the top 50 ever because they will inevitably bust just like Montero.

Bip
Member
Member
Bip
2 years 2 months ago

One low-A top-50 pitching prospect still doesn’t even begin to get it done though. What else to the Yankee’s have?

Cliff
Guest
Cliff
2 years 2 months ago

Ah-hem, High A

Cliff
Guest
Cliff
2 years 2 months ago

Judge, Refsnyder, Murphy, Jagielo, Clarkin. Couple of other top-100s in there. Yanks will have a marginal top-10 farm by the end of the year if they don’t trade it away.

Cicero
Guest
Cicero
2 years 2 months ago

Cubs, Pirates, Red Sox, Astros, Indians could all put together packages depending on how they view their own SS prospects

Anthony Rescan
Member
Anthony Rescan
2 years 2 months ago

Just what we need, more shortstops!

TurnYourCrankToFrank
Guest
TurnYourCrankToFrank
2 years 2 months ago

Blue Jays. Reyes needs to move to 3B or LF. His fielding has become awful at SS.

It would gut their farm system, but they have the prospects to pull it off and they desperately need a bat otherwise they are quickly going to be out of contention.

AA
Guest
AA
2 years 2 months ago

His fielding is league average

TurnYourCrankToFrank
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TurnYourCrankToFrank
2 years 2 months ago

He doesn’t come close to passing the eye test.

Jason B
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Jason B
2 years 2 months ago

Luckily there are metrics available, so we don’t need to rely exclusively on the infallible “eye test”.

JKB
Guest
JKB
2 years 2 months ago

Price, Zobrist, and somebody else for Tulo?

PWR
Guest
PWR
2 years 2 months ago

all signs point to one team -> Boston

Scranton
Guest
Scranton
2 years 2 months ago

Hanson, Glasnow, Mercer and Meadows (or Bell) for Tulo + 35 Million

Andrew
Guest
Andrew
2 years 2 months ago

“Maybe ownership decides it has had enough of the bizarre Dan O’Dowd-Bill Geivett pairing.”

That implies the Monforts have the slightest bit of self-awareness and anyone who follows the Rockies knows that isn’t the case.

jfree
Member
jfree
2 years 2 months ago

The Monforts should offer the team for sale. They are near the worst owners. Absent that, Dick Monfort should fire himself as team president and find someone who has a clue.

Trading Tulo or CarGo makes no sense absent the sacking of the entire front office (Monfort as Pres, O’Dowd, Geivett, everyone else on the baseball side) first.

Well Bearded Vogon
Guest
Well Bearded Vogon
2 years 2 months ago

Tulo for Sogard, straight up.

Reese
Guest
Reese
2 years 2 months ago

Andrew McCutchen would like to join that discussion group of “2nd best player in MLB behind Trout”.

Johan Santa
Guest
2 years 2 months ago

Yeah… Tulo’s having a better season THIS year, but he’s never broken 6 WAR before, never mind 8.

Cliff Pennington
Guest
Cliff Pennington
2 years 2 months ago

I’d take Tulo over Cutch when healthy but the problem is he’s never healthy. So yeah, Cutch > Tulo.

Dan M
Guest
Dan M
2 years 2 months ago

Clayton Kershaw and Felix Hernandez would like to make an edit: “2nd best position player in MLB behind Trout”.

pandetta
Member
pandetta
2 years 2 months ago

He is in the discussion, but it probably isn’t a serious discussion.

Serious Discussion
Guest
Johan Santa
Guest
2 years 2 months ago

I like how Trout is still leading despite spotting everyone else about 3/4 of a season head start.

Reese
Guest
Reese
2 years 2 months ago

Part of the problem is that the Rockies have chosen to do business and extend known injury-prone players like Brett Anderson and Carlos Gonzalez. This team has never had a good pitcher in their franchise history, mostly due to conditions, so they desperately tried to shanghai Anderson this offseason and hoped for the best.

Until Gray comes up, their rotation (both on DL and healthy) is a collection of #3’s and #5’s.

John
Guest
John
2 years 2 months ago

Max Scherzer sign and trade for Tulowitzki

Shauncore
Member
Shauncore
2 years 2 months ago

Throw in a draft pick and you’ve got it!

Emily Rugburn
Guest
Emily Rugburn
2 years 2 months ago

Scherzer would of course lose his Bird Rights but throwing in the Mid-level exception might do the trick.

Stan Gable
Guest
Stan Gable
2 years 2 months ago

Well, that’s assuming he isn’t designated a franchise player too…

Boris Chinchilla
Guest
Boris Chinchilla
2 years 2 months ago

What if he’s sold to some euro team?

MLB Umpire
Guest
MLB Umpire
2 years 2 months ago

Here’s Rosario on Sunday, after having received a throw from Nolan Arenado, just barely missing a sliding Adrian Gonzalez. This wouldn’t be a big deal if not for the fact that Rosario inexplicably was attempting to tag the runner on a bases-loaded force play.

But his glove is clearly blocking the plate.

joser
Guest
joser
2 years 2 months ago

Yeah, he’s just observing the post-Posey rule.

Alex
Guest
Alex
2 years 2 months ago

Woo Hoo, Tyler Matzek getting some love.

Well, more like a lack of hate but it’s still a step forward!

Cicero
Guest
Cicero
2 years 2 months ago

Excellent points a few thoughts though, Morneau has been what he always is, excellent vRHP(144wRC+) awful vLHP(79wRC+) the trick being in April Cuddyer(236wRC+vLHP) could spell him. Blackmon has a BABIP 70 points below his career averages since May so may be getting unlucky(part of that again is that he has had to start more vLHP with Cuddyer and Cargo out). If tulo is traded they ought to also move includes Morneau, Cargo, Delarosa, Stubbs, Hawkins, Logan(if anyone wants him) for prospects(Cuddyer as a waiver trade). Other players that would be useful for contenders and should be moved if a decent offer is made include Blackmon, Barnes, Lemahieu, Rosario(would be a perfect platoon/learning D in MIA for Salty)would be useful for a contender but hardly core guys for the next wave of contention. Unfortunately given the track record of ownership/management we will likely see a deck chair shuffle and the same team back for 2015

FeslenR
Guest
FeslenR
2 years 2 months ago

Tulo as a Met is interesting, but do the Mets have enough to give up for him? Let’s say Harvey is off the table, then what?

Za
Guest
Za
2 years 2 months ago

Wheeler/Plawecki/Smith/Reynolds/Fulmer could be a workable package; it may need to be tweaked but you’ve got your pedigree’d starter with upside and cost-control, a Top-3 catching prospect in baseball, a guy hitting like .380 at SS in AAA, a 1st round pick with upside, and a 1s picking up steam after facing injuries. I’d throw in Cecchini if they want another prospect.

The Mets have enough money to pay Tulo’s contract if they win baseball games. Adding Tulo and Harvey while subtracting Wheeler would still result in a better clubs on both sides and it does seem like the Mets could pull off the trade without touching guys like Herrera, Nimmo, Matz, and Syndergaard.

vivalajeter
Guest
vivalajeter
2 years 2 months ago

This is why it’s tough for any team to trade for him. He’s too good for Colorado to give up for a substandard package, but that’s too big package of prospects to give up, and it doesn’t really make sense for the Mets to give up that much for a $20+MM Shortstop on the wrong side of 30. If a team is on the cusp of winning and SS was their biggest weakness, I can see it, but there aren’t too many teams in that situation.

Balthazar
Guest
2 years 2 months ago

Bingo. The ask what Colorado would want would exceed in WAR in aggregate what they’re getting in most cases. And you take on all the risk of getting your wins out of _one_ guy, who’s had health issues and isn’t getting younger. And isn’t cheap for the wins he provides.

Sure, everybody would love to have Tulo. The cost of getting him just doesn’t pencil out for most teams.

acerimusdux
Guest
acerimusdux
2 years 2 months ago

Syndergaard, Plawecki, Wheeler, and Smith

Can’t expect to give up less for Tulo than you got for Dickey.

Ruben Amaro Jr.
Guest
Ruben Amaro Jr.
2 years 2 months ago

Finally, someone I can get for Franco, Biddle and Crawford. Can you say playoff run?!!

Weston Taylor
Member
Weston Taylor
2 years 2 months ago

He’s not 36 yet, Ruben. Cool your jets.

nilbog44
Member
nilbog44
2 years 2 months ago

Typical Yankee fan trade proposal: “How about yolvangis solarte and brian roberts for tulo?”

Two Jakes
Guest
Two Jakes
2 years 2 months ago

Uh sure. Have you seen the Met fan proposals in these comments? Wheeler for Tulo! Meanwhile, everyone, including the obvious Yankee fans have acknowledged that there is no possible package that could net him (without discussion of Tanaka, of course, since trading him would undermine the reason to trade for Tulo in the first place).

Nope
Guest
Nope
2 years 2 months ago

Not even Tanaka could land him. Tanaka is great but that contract is way too big for a middle market team no matter how good he is.

Anthony Rescan
Member
Anthony Rescan
2 years 2 months ago

You know who makes a lot of money.

Troy Tulowitzki

Bob
Guest
Bob
2 years 2 months ago

Manny Machado and Dylan Bundy makes a little sense.

And Machado back at SS @ Coors…. I need to call my physician because it’s been longer than 3 hours.

Antonio Bananas
Guest
Antonio Bananas
2 years 2 months ago

I like this. The Rox aren’t against taking rusks on guys with injuries either so it may work.

emdash
Guest
emdash
2 years 2 months ago

The Orioles are another team who probably can’t (or won’t) pay for Tulo’s contract.

Boris Chinchilla
Guest
Boris Chinchilla
2 years 2 months ago

I agree about Orioles’ taking on the contract but it doesn’t smell right. Anyone remember when the O’s had the biggest payroll?

Phantom Stranger
Guest
Phantom Stranger
2 years 2 months ago

This is the most sensible proposal I’ve heard. It would come down to what the O’s think of Machado’s future.

Stan Gable
Guest
Stan Gable
2 years 2 months ago

It would be hard to come up with a list of players with a future deemed brighter, right? He’s ‘as it as you get’.

Phantom Stranger
Guest
Phantom Stranger
2 years 2 months ago

I hear there is a player on the Angels that might be better.

bmarkham
Guest
bmarkham
2 years 2 months ago

Maybe at throwing baseball bats

Two Jakes
Guest
Two Jakes
2 years 2 months ago

That’s pretty interesting. I would think the Rockies would take that deal. I actually wonder if the O’s would do it.

AG
Guest
AG
2 years 2 months ago

I would think this is the Rockies dream scenario if it was Gausman instead of Bundy. Bundy’s a curvevall guy. We all know the Rockies think that’s icky.

Henry Newhouse
Guest
Henry Newhouse
2 years 2 months ago

I don’t like Bundy and his curve in Coors…

wherearemypants
Guest
wherearemypants
2 years 2 months ago

Why on earth would the O’s do that? They can’t afford Tulo to begin with, and they are very, very high on Bundy. When you add to that the desire to move Machado to short, and to build the infield around him for the future, this just won’t happen.

Bob
Guest
Bob
2 years 2 months ago

Guess what number is larger: Tulo’s wRC+ or Hardy + Machado’s wRC+. They are going to lose Wieters. They are going to lose Davis. Nelson Cruz won’t be Manny Ramirez again. Those are just a few reasons why they’d do it. How in the eff could you possibly know how high they are on anyone? Everyone is very very high on Bundy. Go piss in someone else’s cheerios on an MLB.com article comments section.

James
Guest
James
2 years 2 months ago

Bob seems angry.

George C
Guest
George C
2 years 2 months ago

The jerk store called, they’re running out of Bob.

Bob
Guest
Bob
2 years 2 months ago

What’s the difference? You’re their all-time best seller!

George C
Guest
George C
2 years 2 months ago

Oh yeah? …. Well I slept with your wife!

arc
Guest
arc
2 years 2 months ago

Pretty sure you can build an infield around Troy Tulowitzki. There is no scenario in which you acquire a player of that caliber without trading a player you are “very very high on”, so that’s not worth pointing out.

Trader Joe
Guest
Trader Joe
2 years 2 months ago

I think the Brewers match up really well with the Rockies if they want Tulo. They have some really enticing young arms (Nelson, Thornburg, Peralta, Fiers)to package with Segura. Or to level the money the Brewers could package Gallardo, Segura, + one of the above SPs not named Nelson. Brewers might even be able to get Morneau as a kick in if the package is right.

It’d be a great move for both clubs. Just the defensive upgrade Tulo brings would help that staff considerably.

RetireNutting
Guest
2 years 2 months ago

Mercer, Hansen, Glasnow, Bell, Ramirez, and Vance Worley (years of control, big leagues now) or Jeff Locke (same) for Tulo +$25M.

Pittsburgh is perfect for him.

Jason B
Guest
Jason B
2 years 2 months ago

Vance Worley! Yuck.

(In Coors? Double yuck.)

(Probably same with Locke.)

RetireNutting
Guest
2 years 2 months ago

He’s been better.

Jason B
Guest
Jason B
2 years 2 months ago

That was a low bar to clear :)

Anthony Rescan
Member
Anthony Rescan
2 years 2 months ago

Polanco, Glasnow, and Hansen?

Me thinks Polanco needs to be involved.

Eminor3rd
Guest
Eminor3rd
2 years 2 months ago

If I’m the Rockies, NONE of those pitchers are good enough.

RetireNutting
Guest
2 years 2 months ago

It’s notably not a deal centered on pitching. If you want a pitching heavy deal: Taillon, Kingham, Locke/Worley, Hansen, Mercer

Robert J. Baumann
Member
Member
2 years 2 months ago

As a Brewers fan, I’d be thrilled to have Tulo, and I can even see Attanasio adding that much salary for the right player/scenario.

Even as a Brewers fan, I know this is pure fantasy.

Many Brewers seem to forget that Fiers is not a prospect: he’s 29 years old. Yes, he’s destroyed AAA, but his age is going to mitigate his value in a deal like this. He’s more of a throw-in than anything.

The other guys (Nelson, Thornburg, Wily Peralta) could be nice mid-rotation guys in the near future (Peralta already is, mostly), but none of them are top prospects. Nelson was their top prospect, and he ranked no higher than 86th on any of the major lists

Even including Segura, which they could do, obviously, it’s just very difficult to see this getting done without including at least one top-25 prospect.

Bip
Member
Member
Bip
2 years 2 months ago

Everyone think the top prospect in their organization is a huge bounty. The OP was even trying to find a way not to include the Brewers top prospect. Yeah, not going to happen.

Garrett Maloney
Guest
Garrett Maloney
2 years 2 months ago

Everyone here is assuming that the front office in Colorado knows what they’re doing. They absolutely do not. I’m terrified to see Tulo go, and it’s obvious that now’s the time, but I’m even more terrified of the garbage deals our front office could leave us with.

AG
Guest
AG
2 years 2 months ago

There is little doubt the team has been run poorly from an organizational standpoint, project 5183 as a prime example. But you would be hard pressed to say Dealin Dan hasn’t at least lived up to his moniker to a decent degree the last few years. Remember, he did once get Cargo for Holliday and the Fowler for Barnes / Lyles trade worked out better than we could have hoped. IF (big if) Tulo was ever to be made available, I don’t think he would settle for a plate of B level prospects

LG
Guest
LG
2 years 2 months ago

Fowler for barnes and lyles has worked out? I mean, sure, for Houston

MK
Guest
MK
2 years 2 months ago

If they wait until the offseason I think the Nats could get involved. Desmond has one year left on his contract and Tulo has the contract to which they would like to sign Desmond. The only problem is that I don’t think the Nats have enough in the “and…” portion of Giolito “and…” to get it done.

emdash
Guest
emdash
2 years 2 months ago

They don’t, I think, unless they’re willing to move Rendon. And I doubt that’s happening.

Anthony Rescan
Member
Anthony Rescan
2 years 2 months ago

That’s another one of those deals that makes a ton of sense.

RC
Guest
RC
2 years 2 months ago

“This wouldnt be a big deal if not for the fact that Rosario inexplicably was attempting to tag the runner on a bases-loaded force play.”

It looks like Rosario had a much better chance of tagging out Gonzalez than beating him to the base. They’re both the same distance away, and Gonzalez is running full speed in the correct direction.

BMB
Guest
BMB
2 years 2 months ago

Boston would be an obvious fit with a package around Allen webster/rubby de la rosa, mookie and cecchini. But Boston has been saving all of those prospects for a potential trade for Giancarlo Stanton. It depends on what Cherington and Co prefers, a locked up shortstop who is one of the top 3-5 players in the league, or an OF who potentially has the highest power upside of anyone in the coming decade?

Cicero
Guest
Cicero
2 years 2 months ago

Swihart over Cecchini but the issue remains the same

vivalajeter
Guest
vivalajeter
2 years 2 months ago

If they do wind up trading Tulo, then I hope somebody hacks into their software system and releases all of their notes. It’s one thing to read the Astros’ notes about Bud Norris, but it’s much more fascinating to see what offers the Rockies actually receive for someone of Tulo’s stature, how they view the packages/prospects, etc.

Cicero
Guest
Cicero
2 years 2 months ago

hard to hack into stone tablets

Wholly Moses
Guest
Wholly Moses
2 years 2 months ago

Nah, it can be done.

Noah Baron
Guest
2 years 2 months ago

I think the Mets actually make the most sense for a trade. They have one of the best farm systems in baseball, and have enough depth at various positions to pull off the trade.

Building a package around Zack Wheeler would make a lot of sense for the Rockies as well. He’s young, cost controlled, improving, and most importantly gets a ton of ground-balls.

A good package would be Zack Wheeler, Rafael Montero, and Kevin Plawecki. In addition to Wheeler, the Rockies get two top-100 prospects. It would be a no-brainer for the Rockies, but the Mets might have reason to be hesitant. There are a plethora of shortstops available this offseason,and it might make more sense for them to just not trade for Tulo and instead sign a guy like JJ Hardy.

jdbolick
Member
Member
2 years 2 months ago

Rather than that being a “no-brainer for the Rockies,” they would need to have no brain to accept it. Neither Wheeler or Montero have much realistic chance of becoming an ace, so you’re looking at two guys who you like in the middle of your rotation, but not exactly the return you want for one of the game’s elite.

I spend an unhealthy amount of time evaluating prospects, but some of you guys overrate them to a mind-boggling degree.

Balthazar
Guest
2 years 2 months ago

Agreed. The Mets do not have a single player _in their organization_ of a level to anchor a deal for Tulo, and a pickup back full of mid-tier prospects shouldn’t even get a polite no from Colorado, offered by the Mets or anyone else. There needs to be a really high ceiling anchor, or several guys who fit so well the package has special appeal. Very few orgs can do that without blowing up their 25-man, their future, or both. And that’s without even considering Tulo’s salary or injury history.

Dodgers or St. Lou are really the only orgs which seem to fit the situation prima facie (despite already having shortstops which they like and have value). For anybody else, it’s a stretch to get it done, make it work, and mostly both.

JMS
Guest
JMS
2 years 2 months ago

“The Mets do not have a single player _in their organization_ of a level to anchor a deal for Tulo.”
Really? Not even Harvey?

Adam
Guest
Adam
2 years 2 months ago

“Neither Wheeler or Montero have much realistic chance of becoming an ace, so you’re looking at two guys who you like in the middle of your rotation, but not exactly the return you want for one of the game’s elite.”

How do you figure that Wheeler doesn’t have much of a chance to be an ace? Montero obviously doesn’t have the stuff to project as an ace but regardless the Mets would need to add 1 or 2 pieces to OP’s trade proposal because those three guys aren’t enough.

jdbolick
Member
Member
2 years 2 months ago

Because Wheeler’s “stuff” is good but not elite. He succeeds when he gets hitters to chase out of the zone and struggles when they don’t. He ranks near the very bottom of the league in first strike percentage and is bottom-30 in overall strike percentage as well.

El Guapo
Guest
El Guapo
2 years 2 months ago

Tell me Noah..what is a plethora???

Ruben Amaro Jr.
Member
Ruben Amaro Jr.
2 years 2 months ago

It’s the hole you plee from.

King Felix
Guest
King Felix
2 years 2 months ago

2nd best player? Heck I got a better war than him right now(5.1).

Not a Coors creation? Tulo is hitting .439 at home and .265 on the road. Last season, .342 at home and .281 on the road.

He is an acceptable hitter on the road, and a good one for a shortstop, but is absurdly great hitting at Coors. Although not purely a Coors creation in the Bichette/Castilla/Galarraga mold, Coors sure does help his numbers. In 45 road games Tulo has 14 extra base hits, and has struck out 30 times. In 38 Coors games he has 22 extra base hits and has struck out only 18 times. Coors helps. A lot.

And yeah, Giancarlo Stanton should be in that 2nd best conversation, too.

Jimmer
Guest
Jimmer
2 years 2 months ago

Batting average?

Tulo’s away wRC+ this year is still 132, which would place him behind only Hanley Ramirez as far as MLB shortstops go. Add that to the fact that he has quite a few tough parks to play in during his inter-division home games, and the fact that he still plays outstanding defense, still makes him EXTREMELY valubale no matter how much you want to knock him for his home numbers.

Jimmer
Guest
Jimmer
2 years 2 months ago

When I say ‘Tulo’s away wRC+ this year is still 132, which would place him behind only Hanley Ramirez as far as MLB shortstops go.’ I was comparing Tulo’s away wRC+ to all the other shortstops’ overall season wRC+.

It’s important to note that Hanley Ramirez himself has an away wRC+ of 123.

Jimmer
Guest
Jimmer
2 years 2 months ago

also important to note, Ramirez is a horrible defender.

So regardless of the home/away splits, Tulo is clearly the best shortstop in the game, regardless of his park, when looking at the whole picture. No one else is really even close. His wRC+ of 132 on the road, coming from a person who plays shortstop, certainly rises above the unflattering description of just ‘acceptable’.

Cicero
Guest
Cicero
2 years 2 months ago

Galarraga had the exact same year in ATL the year he left Coors, In 01 in Houston(31HR/650PA .270/.320/.492) and 03 in Atlanta Castilla had years pretty similar to his last two years in Colorado(1999 33HR in 674PA.275/.331/.478) (2004 35HR in 648PA .271/.332/.535) both guys had some bad years but were past 30 when they left Colorado. Look at Matt Holliday he had a 110wrC+ on the road in 5 years as a Rockie, and a 150wRC+ on the road in his first 5 years when he left. Look at Fowler .271/.367/.427 overall a 105wRC+ .299/.396/.488 Home116wRC+ .243/.336/.364Road 94WRC+ and his first year in Houston .270/.377/.396 122wRC+

Belloc
Guest
Belloc
2 years 2 months ago

Look at all these players who aren’t Troy Tulowitzky as proof of how Troy Tulowitzky will play in the future.

Cicero
Guest
Cicero
2 years 2 months ago

not proof but look across the guys who left Colorado in anything but a steep decline and you are left with very few(Cirillo) examples of people who weren’t very similar if not better players elsewhere

Look at Chris Iannetta is a 112OPS+ hitter 29-30 after being a 99OPS+ hitter 23-28.

Even Jeff Cirillo was essentially the same overall player in Denver in 2000-01(.320/.379/.475 .854OPS) as he was 98-99 in Milwaukee(.324/.401/.453 .855OPS) then he was awful in SEA/SD but came back and hit .304/.371/.420 as a 35-26yo in Milwaukee again.

Troy Tulowitzky
Guest
Troy Tulowitzky
2 years 2 months ago

Dammit! I got confused with that baseball player again! Ughhhhhh

Cato the Elder
Guest
Cato the Elder
2 years 2 months ago

Look at all this talk of past performance when what we are really interested in the future.

Chesterton
Guest
Chesterton
2 years 2 months ago

Past results are the best predictor of future returns, Tulo is an excellent 29yo SS signed to a 6/114 with a 15m option look at the contracts handed out to Cano, Votto et al you would be looking at 100m more to sign him as a FA

arc
Guest
arc
2 years 2 months ago

What a stupid thing to say.

lesmash
Member
Member
lesmash
2 years 2 months ago

Branch Rickey said that it is always better to trade a player a year too early than a year too late. I sense that right now might still be too early to ship Tulo out of town, but perhaps the alternative of waiting another year and a half yields the Rockies only ~ 70% of what they could get now. Tulo really can’t get any better, and trading a player at absolute max value is fine as long as you get max value in return.

Pretend he’s Bartolo Colon and go get the next package of Phillips / Sizemore / Lee.

I don't know
Guest
I don't know
2 years 2 months ago

Which is why the non trade of Chase Headley goes down as one of the worst baseball moves since I can remember, which says a lot, considering the Red Sox front office makes plenty of them every season. I think about it often and wonder why I was the only person in baseball yelling (I’m not even a Padres fan) to trade Headley after that MVP caliber season he had. Nope. I saw that train wreck coming 10 miles away. I guess that’s why their GM was fired. They could have bagged a top 5 prospect and 2 top 10-15 at the time

Ruki Motomiya
Guest
Ruki Motomiya
2 years 2 months ago

Even at the MVP year, I doubt they would have gotten that haul.

Explicitly Sarcastic
Guest
Explicitly Sarcastic
2 years 2 months ago

Man, they should hire you! You’re incredible at GMing!!!

MGL
Guest
MGL
2 years 2 months ago

“but for a guy who is pretty clearly the second-best player in baseball behind Mike Trout..”

McCutchen might dispute that, perhaps even Miggy, at least the word “clearly,” according to FG Steamer and ZIPS projections.

http://www.fangraphs.com/projections.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&type=steamerr&team=0&players=0&sort=22,d

Cicero
Guest
Cicero
2 years 2 months ago

I agree on the whole, but if you laid out a team of players to make the ideal team Trout is as much better than the second place CF McC than Tulo is than Hanley. Also none of those guys will be on the trading block, imagine what Kershaw or Felix would return in trade even given the contracts.

LG
Guest
LG
2 years 2 months ago

You are not the real MGL.

Jim
Guest
Jim
2 years 2 months ago

He’d just what the Mets need. A savior level player. Imagine DWright and Tulo left side. Some of the National League’s finest right there.

Hurtlocker
Guest
Hurtlocker
2 years 2 months ago

Tulo is pretty much the face of that franchise. I can’t see any trade “accepted” by the fans. Winning helps, but would the Rocks take that chance on alienating the fan base?

BobbyJohn
Guest
BobbyJohn
2 years 2 months ago

With the way the franchise has been mis-managed over its existence, why would the Monfort’s worry about alienating a fan base that still shows up to the tune of roughly 3 million tickets per season?

tz
Guest
tz
2 years 2 months ago

The Rox need to abandon trying to get/develop/coerce any improvement in pitching, and should embrace Coors Field and build an offensive juggernaut instead.

Something like Tulo for Andrus, Profar, and Gallo would be a good first step. Maybe not until the offseason, but the Rangers aren’t going to write off 2015 just because 2014 was an injury disaster.

Anthony Rescan
Member
Anthony Rescan
2 years 2 months ago

The 90’s called, they want their strategy back.

Matt Mosher
Member
Member
Matt Mosher
2 years 2 months ago

I’m a Mets fan. I love Tulo, but I’m not giving up a ton of pitching prospects AND taking that contract and the injury risk.

Sportsfan0000
Guest
Sportsfan0000
2 years 2 months ago

Tigers would be the best fit.

There is a huge Polish community in Detroit that would love Tulo
(the former Polish Pope has cousins living in that area).

Tigers have a lot of great pitching they constantly draft in the minors
including 3 Starting studs at A ball Lakeland who are all on the All Star team:

Tigers great young pitching include: Jonathan Crawford,Jake Thompson.

Tigers have 5 hot young prospects from The Lakeland Flying Tigers
on the All Star team:

The Florida State League (FSL) 2014 All-Star teams have been announced by League President Chuck Murphy. Starting pitchers Jake Thompson, Kevin Eichhorn and Josh Turley, relief pitcher Angel Nesbitt and catcher Austin Green will represent the Flying Tigers(Detroit) at the 53rd annual FSL All-Star Game.

Tigers also have excellent pitching prospects at AA and AAA.

Rockies could cut a deal sending Tulo and/or Cargon to the Tigers
and get back the nucleus of their future playoff team in a couple of years.

Bip
Member
Member
Bip
2 years 2 months ago

The Tigers don’t have a single player on BA’s midseason top 50 prospects list. They don’t have the players to get this done. I highly doubt the Tigers have “the nucleus of [a] future playoff team” sitting in their minor league system right now.

Cato the Elder
Guest
Cato the Elder
2 years 2 months ago

Yeah, but what about that huge Polish community?

LONNIE
Guest
LONNIE
2 years 2 months ago

If I were a team and had the chance to get Tulo I would say “for who” and then it would be done. I would rather have Tulo than any of the packages that so many of you would be hesitant to give up for him.

Adele Armagost
Guest
Adele Armagost
2 years 2 months ago

Good, i’ll take Trout, Aybar, Pujols, CJ Wilson, and 400M$.

dayton moore
Guest
dayton moore
2 years 2 months ago

Forget it. We’ve been offering Moose for Tulo straight up for, like, years. Getting nowhere. I’d say Tulo is off limits.

Jason
Guest
Jason
2 years 2 months ago

I feel like the Cubs could use a little more depth at SS.

Sandy Alderson
Guest
Sandy Alderson
2 years 2 months ago

I’ll give you Syndergaard, Flores, Nimmo, Dom Smith, deGrom, and Tejada.
Deal or no deal?

I don't know
Guest
I don't know
2 years 2 months ago

A lot of fans on here are clearly overvaluing the situation. No doubt, Tulo is amidst one of his best, if not his best overall, season. However, facts need to be restated — he is due a HUGE sum of money and is a fairly significant injury risk. Let’s not be mistaken that a trade could and produce “a return”, but for those of you dreaming up bagging a couple top 5 prospects in a trade, you’re all mistaken. The Yankee’s make a lot of sense and would have a willingness to take on that payroll. Tulo has clearly shown his appreciation for the Yanks and his love of Jeter and would gladly fill that role. I don’t necessarily know if this is something the Yanks would jump at either. $114mm is huge amount of money for a guy who could theoretically be a Brian Roberts type and after 2014 play 56 games over the next 3 seasons. The Red Sox could be a trade partner, probably the best of the bunch, but I just don’t see it. They have a history of making poor moves or non moves, they’re frugal and they have some depth at SS or middle infield already. Considering their front office plan and not signing Ellsbury, almost even money after this season, clearing a more durable player and at a position they desperately need, fat chance they acquire Tulo. Who knows, though. The Mariners straight up won’t do it. They can afford it theoretically, but no change they add a $22mm-$25mm a year player. Ditto the Cards. Makes a ton of sense on paper, but logically, probably not happening. No way for the Mets either. My feeling is it’s the Yanks or Tigers, neither of which acquire him now. More likely in the winter and the Yanks have better prospects than some are being led on to believe.

Bomok
Guest
Bomok
2 years 2 months ago

Although alot of what you say is true, the Yankees don’t have close to the quantity of quality prospects that it would take to land Tulo.
After the RA Dickey trade ( After the 2012 season) the Marlins offered Stanton to the Mets for d’Arnaud(top 15 prospect in baseball, #6 acc. to MLB.com) and Zack Wheeler ( Top 10 prospect in baseball, #8 acc. to MLB.com)
That should be about what Tulo is worth. The contract is reasonable, and his Injury risk is countered by him playing SS.

vivalajeter
Guest
vivalajeter
2 years 2 months ago

Do you have a source for that? Seems like Stanton would net a nicer return than that.

jfree
Member
jfree
2 years 2 months ago

Yanks don’t have near enough prospects for Tulo. They could probably be in the game for CarGo though if he comes up for trade

Two Jakes
Guest
Two Jakes
2 years 2 months ago

The Yankees just don’t have the prospects. The only way they could get them would be by trading all the valuable major league pieces currently on the roster, thereby eliminating any chance of winning now and the reason for getting Tulo. I suppose they could look to just buy those new pieces over the winter, but it’s tough to go into an acknowledged rebuilding year with Jeter in his last season. Even if it is the smart move, the fans would not forgive it.

Jerry
Guest
Jerry
2 years 2 months ago

I’d say the Pirates, Mets, Red Sox, Mariners, and Cards. The Dodgers could get involved, too. And the Tigers always seem to be involved in big trades, although I don’t see much of a fit.

I’d expect the Rockies to be less willing to trade within their division than some other clubs, and might favor moving him to the AL.

I think the M’s are the most interesting candidate:
-rebuilding club finally in a position to contend
-GM on the proverbial hotseat
-big recent investment to buy back a bit of respectability with the Robinson Cano signing
-club that gradually cut back payroll for a while, but is now seeing huge influx of returning fans and recently sealed an insanely lucrative TV contract
-‘window of contention’ just opening, largely defined by Felix Hernandez and Robinson Cano
-could put together a good package with a combo of young, cost controlled ML ready players (Taijuan Walker, James Paxton, Brad Miller, Ames Jones, Nick Franklin), prospects (DJ Peterson, Gabriel Guerrero, Austin Wilson, Victor Sanchez, Edwin Diaz, Ketel Marte, Chris Taylor, etc), and interesting throw-ins (Dustin Ackley, Justin Smoak, Jesus Montero, Danny Hultzen, lots of young relievers). I think the Ms would be motivated and able to work something out if the Rockies did shop him.

Jerry
Guest
Jerry
2 years 2 months ago

Tulo and Drew Stubbs for Taijuan Walker, DJ Peterson, Brad Miller, Nick Franklin, James Jones, and Justin Smoak. Who says no?

AG
Guest
AG
2 years 2 months ago

I see the potential benefits of a Tulo trade, but frankly the Rockies need to see what they can get with a full sale of the other value pieces they have before resorting to a full de-Tulo-ization of the ballclub.

De la Rosa should be dealt. While having a somewhat down year, he’s at the end of his contract and can provide legitimate pitching depth to a contender. Jason Hammel for a former 1? Maybe a slight stretch comparison, but not a bad starting point.

Cuddyer being hurt sucks way more because it saps close to whatever trade value he could have had. Marlon Byrd-type value from last year may still be feasible after the waiver deadline if his health looks at all promising.

Hawkins isn;t particularly useful to a last place team.

Trading Rosario would also be smart in my opinion. Especially to an AL team where they can DH him and avoid needing to witness his terrible defense. Rox should sign a vet catcher this offseason and push Tom Murphy a bit to see whats there.

Logan Davis
Member
2 years 2 months ago

“Hey Jack. We’re willing to give you Tulo, but we’d like a ready-made keystone combo that projects for 5 WAR annually for the next six years, your best pitching prospect, your best hitting prospect, your young fourth outfielder, and a total scrub.”

“…that’s the most ridiculous trade concept I’ve heard since I extended Felix and finally shut Cashman up.”

“OK. What if we threw in Drew Stubbs?”

“DEAL!”

Blake
Guest
Blake
2 years 2 months ago

Logan…don’t even kid.

Bip
Member
Member
Bip
2 years 2 months ago

Trade discussion disclaimer:

YOUR ORGANIZATION’S TOP PROSPECT IS NOT AS VALUABLE AS YOU THINK HE IS

The A’s just traded their 2 top prospects, one of which is a top-10 overall prospect, for two good-not-great pitchers under control for a total of 2 years. Tulo is a star, is under contract for 5 years, and is a position player. If you are not offering a top-10 guy, or multiple top-20 guys or something, this deal is not getting done.

Jimmy Nelson or Luis Severino does not get this deal done.

BenRevereDoesSteroids
Guest
BenRevereDoesSteroids
2 years 2 months ago

“The Mariners badly need to make an offensive splash, and could easily replace or trade Brad Miller at shortstop”

Let me remind the world of a tweet by Mr. Dave Cameron on April 1, 2014. https://twitter.com/DCameronFG/status/451224501171527680

And people still say this guy isn’t a homer.

Jerry
Guest
Jerry
2 years 2 months ago

Brad Miller is a damn good player. Despite a very slow start this year, he’s made adjustments and is hitting.

He’s been good his entire career, save a bad May this year.

He’s not a franchise cornerstone player, but he’s better than a lot of starting SSs in MLB right now, and just figures to improve.

BenRevereDoesSteroids
Member
BenRevereDoesSteroids
2 years 2 months ago

His entire career consists of his time in the minors, half of last season, and half of this season. And that tweet was from April 1st.

And saying he has only had a bad my isn’t true. He had a bad April, May, and July (so far). He has only had one good month so far this season, being June.

In short, Not the 2nd best shortstop in the AL. Not even particularly close.

Logan Davis
Member
2 years 2 months ago

Brad Miller has 151 games under his belt and 2.6 WAR. He is twenty-four. ZiPS RoS thinks he is the seventh-best shortstop in the AL. Steamer RoS thinks he is the second-best shortstop in the AL, behind only Andrus. Over the last 30 days, including your hilariously tiny July split, he has been the best shortstop in the AL.

Jerry’s argument, which is that Miller is a good young player with upside, is much more reasonable than yours.

(Man, remember when Dave Cameron said that Kyle Seager was just a utility guy and James Paxton was just a reliever? Man, what a homer.)

BenRevereDoesSteroids
Guest
BenRevereDoesSteroids
2 years 2 months ago

This isn’t about what Jerry said. I have no beef with Jerry saying is he a good young player. I have a problem with Cameron saying he is the 2nd best SS in the AL.

DLuchofCO
Guest
DLuchofCO
2 years 2 months ago

Tulowitzki wont be traded, as the Monforts(ownership group of Rockies), have always implemented a one star approach, and keep telling the fans that the farm system is strong and will eventually produce great young talent. The problem is the story gets old after 15 years. The other problem is there is no incentive to change on the Monforts part because they just drew two sellouts and a 45,000+ crowd on Sunday over this past weekend.

Kevin
Guest
Kevin
2 years 2 months ago

You’re right and wrong.
Coors will still be pretty full.
On the other hand I was *shocked* to hear that they sold out 2 games on a holiday weekend in which fireworks were included.

Tim
Guest
Tim
2 years 2 months ago

With Wacha out, Miller broken, and Garcia dead, the Cardinals don’t have the pitching depth to pull off a trade. Obviously, Taveras is a great start, but Colorado will want multiple arms, too. The best arms STL could include are Marco Gonzales, a 3rd/4th starter, and Rob Kaminksy, an admittedly intriguing arm. I’m not sure if Colorado needs a second baseman, but Wong would have to go in the trade, since Carpenter would take his spot. Maybe Wong and Piscotty could go to a third team for a good young arm, so Colorado would get:

Taveras
Gonzales
Kaminsky
Wong and Piscotty OR a good arm acquired using them

St. Louis gets Tulo and pays for the whole contract. That’s the best I could think of, and I’m not sure that’s enough for Colorado. Maybe Adams tips the scale. And yes, STL could really use Tulo. Just look at the offensive numbers sitting near the bottom of the majors with no help in sight, and their big bat, Holliday, is fully in his decline phase. They need a superstar who can impact a lineup for the next 3-4 years.

BobbyJohn
Guest
BobbyJohn
2 years 2 months ago

I like Lemahieu, but the Rockies DO need a 2B. He’s not even replacement-level and he’s the everyday guy.

I keep hoping Weiss will realize that defense is important (and DJ is a legit GG candidate) but scoring runs is ALSO part of the deal. Rutledge should be the guy up the middle with Tulo, but if they move Troy then Rut would take over at SS.

Cicero
Guest
Cicero
2 years 2 months ago

Do you mean league average? DJ is about 1.5-2WAR/155G plays a very slick 2B, decent 3B and acceptable for a backup SS so not a black hole of suck but should definitely face more LHP than RHP

BobbyJohn
Guest
BobbyJohn
2 years 2 months ago

DJ’s value is entirely tied to his glove. To date, he’s got an OPS+ of 80.

He should be a utility player, not an every day one.

Cicero
Guest
Cicero
2 years 2 months ago

I understand but replacement level is 0.0WAR, DJ is pretty close to league average

bmarkham
Guest
bmarkham
2 years 2 months ago

“They need a superstar who can impact a lineup for the next 3-4 years.”

Then why do you think they should trade Taveras?

GreenMountainBoy
Guest
GreenMountainBoy
2 years 2 months ago

If I’m the Red Sox, struggling as they are with a black hole at SS (Drew), I do this deal in a heartbeat no matter WHAT it takes. They grossly underestimated what Ellsbury meant to their lineup (granted, their mistake was made 4-5 years ago, but still), and they’re struggling to score even 3 runs/game. Add Tulo to provide protection for Pedroia/Ortix/Napoli though, and that’s a team ready to go on a tear. And he would help Bogaerts as well.

What to give up? Any 5 or 10 guys the Rockies want from their minor league system except for maybe De La Rosa and one of their up and coming Cs. Plus JBII, Betts, and any reliever off the MLB roster, even Koji. I’ve never understood why the Sox farm system is rated so high anyway. I just don’t see it.

The Sox are circling the drain and need to do something NOW. They can afford Tulo… in fact, he’s a bargain even at his salary. Can you imagine what he’d hit in Fenway???? Man up, Cherington. No risk, no reward. Nobody would kill you for mortgaging the farm and/or part of the MLB roster for Tulo. See Epstein, Theo, 2004 – Nomar Garciaparra. How’d that work out? Put on your big boy pants and get this done.

AG
Guest
AG
2 years 2 months ago

The green monster might be just close enough to reward Tulo for some of his legendary popups

GreenMountainBoy
Guest
GreenMountainBoy
2 years 2 months ago

Many of them would become doubles and many shots would also become doubles instead of HR, but I think it’s a net gain. Tulo would hit .350 every year playing half his games in Fenway.

BobbyJohn
Guest
BobbyJohn
2 years 2 months ago

I see the point in trading Tulo, but Carlos Gonzalez should be moved first, IMO. Tulo is basically irreplaceable, given what he does and his position. Corey Dickerson can step in for CarGo right now with only a slight drop-off in defense and pretty much zero in offense.

And yes, injuries have killed this team this year. It’s been difficult to watch as a fan. While I knew the April start was a fluke because there was no way the offense could keep going at that pace, I didn’t think the starting rotation would be as hard-hit as it has been (and subsequently as awful).

Would love to hear thoughts as to what sort of return (#4 starter type?) Gonzalez might bring, since I don’t see them moving Troy.

Matt
Guest
Matt
2 years 2 months ago

They missed the boat here. Could have got the Cardinals to give them Taveras. Now they seem to have filled that SS position

TC
Guest
TC
2 years 2 months ago

How about a 3 team deal. Yankees get Tulo. Cubs get Severino, Gary Sanchez, Brady Lail/Rafael Depaua, Rockies get one of Russell/Baez, Aaron Judge, DePaula/Lail. How bad is my trade proposal?

BenRevereDoesSteroids
Member
BenRevereDoesSteroids
2 years 2 months ago

What are the chances of the Rockies taking a prospect light deal? That is, a trade that consists of mainly major leaguers? For example, instead of wanting a deal headlined by Jimmy Nelson, what if they wanted Peralta and Gallardo? That way they can avoid rebuild mode as the Rockies are like to do.

Not saying it would be smart, but it seems like something the Rockies would do.

Gary Nashville
Guest
Gary Nashville
2 years 2 months ago

I’m curious why the many people who propose 3-team trades insist on including one team who would happily accept 10 cents on the dollar.
TC has to be a Yankee fan to imagine that the Cubs would give up either Russell or Baez (BOTH of whom are Top-5 prospects in all MLB) for that Yankee pupu platter.

Gary Nashville
Guest
Gary Nashville
2 years 2 months ago

Ok, I looked up those Yank prospects, and TC’s trade idea isn’t THAT outlandish. But it does assume that the Cubs would be willing to trade one of their two “dollar bills”(Russell/Baez) for two 40 cent prospects, plus a throw-in.

There’s no way that would happen. It’s intriguing, because the Cubs now have 3 outstanding, MLB-ready SS in the high minors, plus 24 year-old Castro in MLB playing at an All-Star level, so trading for two of their weak spots (pitcher and catcher) does make some sense. But, come on.

Cicero
Guest
Cicero
2 years 2 months ago

they may end up trading one of those SS soon, but will want a FOR type SP to do it

TC
Guest
TC
2 years 2 months ago

I am indeed a Yankee fan, sorry if that offends you. The driving thought behind that was in fact the Cubs glut at ss prospects and lack of pitching/catching. I understand that quality over quantity is ideal, but it’s not like I’m scraping the bottom of the barrel in that offer. I included who I think are the Yankees top 3 prospects. 40 cent prospect is a bit harsh. Severino although young is a top 50 guy with top flight velo and 2 other potential plus pitches. Sanchez was in the top 85 and is a 21 yr old catcher hitting to a 117wRC+ in AA while throwing out half the people who attempt to steal on him. I think they have more value than you give them credit for.
Not saying that makes this a great proposal, but it was the best idea I could come up with what they have to offer. I realize that in reality they just don’t have enough premier guys to get it done, it’s still fun to pipedream sometimes.

TC
Guest
TC
2 years 2 months ago

I meant to say nearly half the base runners. I really thought the heat was going to come from the Rockies side of that proposal though, not the Cubs side.

Anthony Rescan
Member
Anthony Rescan
2 years 2 months ago

This is terrible. Keep your crap. We’ll keep our high level shortstop prospects.

Holland
Guest
Holland
2 years 2 months ago

I like the old school in this thread, ‘old school’ as in 15 years ago. Still, you all should get with the times. I happen to think the Shields/Myers trade almost 2 years ago was the peak of trading young, cost controlled players for expensive 30 year old’s – though don’t share that with Cashman. Then again Myers is looking like another PCL wonder boy so maybe the team that was most fleeced with that trade was you, Team Fangraphs and your inane circlejerks.

Anyway, In my opinion you’re all insane if you think, and you obviously do, that LA is going to give up 3 top young players for Tulo. The game is changing and these type trades will occur far less frequently then in the past. Also, as someone else mentioned, LA could pay Hanley less than what Tulo presently earns and keep those lottery tickets.

It’s becoming ever more so a younger man’s game. Get used to it.

Stank Asten
Guest
Stank Asten
2 years 2 months ago

You are insane if you think Hanley can play SS for 3 years going forward, let alone now.
RE: your “PCL wonder boy” comment, guess where Joc plays.

Holland
Guest
Holland
2 years 2 months ago

You calling the NYY org insane? Of course Hanley COULD be LA’s SS for 3 years going forward, although it’s more likely that he and Tulo are their respective team’s 3B then.

Jeffrey.lage@gmail.com
Guest
Jeffrey.lage@gmail.com
2 years 2 months ago

It should be noted how all Rockies players have hit on the road lifetime.

Worst offense in baseball since their creation as a road team. There’s more to Rockies hitters than just their road numbees

Chesterton
Guest
Chesterton
2 years 2 months ago

Seth Smith, Chris Iannetta and Dexter Fowler are all good examples of guys having career best wRC+ this after leaving COL not in full decline

John Elway
Member
2 years 2 months ago

Better trade him now while he’s healthy. Nobody wants an injured guy in his 30’s making well into eight figures.

Just neighing.

fooddetective
Member
fooddetective
2 years 1 month ago

NOSTRADOMUS

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