Organizational Rankings: #29

Continuing on with the organizational rankings series, which kicked off this afternoon. Due to popular demand, I’m going to add in a section on ownership, which will cover the team’s financial health as well as the qualities of the upper level executives not in the baseball operations department.

Rankings So Far

#30: Washington Nationals

#29: Florida Marlins

Ownership: F

What can I say about Jeff Loria? He almost single-handedly dismantled baseball in Montreal, ran the Expos into the ground, and then conspired with Bud Selig to pull off a deal that saw him sell the Expos to MLB and he took ownership of the Florida Marlins. Since then, he’s run the Marlins as a glorified farm team for the rest of baseball, offering little financial support to the baseball operations department and giving them a shoestring budget that requires them to dump almost every last bit of talent from the organization once they become eligible for salary arbitration. As he did in Montreal, he’s focused on getting a new stadium from the local government, and will put no effort into fielding a contending team until the city complies. At this point, he’s in the running for the title of worst baseball owner of all time. And he doesn’t appear to be going anywhere.

Front Office: B-

Larry Beinfest and company actually do pretty good work, considering what they are given to work with. They scout well, and continue to unearth useful players on the cheap. His acquisition of Hanley Ramirez has worked out better than even he could have imagined, and by surrounding Ramirez with guys like Dan Uggla (Rule 5 draft), Jorge Cantu (minor league free agent), and Cody Ross (acquired for cash), the Marlins were able to field a respectable offense while getting by on a payroll of approximately $0. They’ve sacrificed a lot of defense in the process, however, and the formula will never result in a World Championship, but it’s probably as good as anyone could do, given the circumstances.

Major League Talent: B-

Last summer, we ranked Ramirez as the second most valuable commodity in baseball. The Marlins have their young superstar locked up long term, but with their payroll, they’ll continue to struggle to get enough good position players around him. There is some talent there, with Uggla and Jeremy Hermida providing some offense and Cameron Maybin looking like a potential top of the order hitter and center fielder, but it’s the pitching staff that will carry this team. Ricky Nolasco is an all-star in the making, and it’s tough to find a better group of arms than Josh Johnson, Chris Volstad, Andrew Miller, and Anibal Sanchez rounding out the rotation. That’s an extremely talented group, but there’s significant health questions with almost all of them, and the Marlins defense won’t do them any favors. But, with a few good hitters and some good arms, this is a team that should win about as often as they lose, and has some upside beyond that.

Minor League Talent: B+

There’s some serious upside down on the farm. Mike Stanton has as much raw power as any prospect in the game, and Logan Morrison, Kyle Skipworth, and Matt Dominguez are all among the better prospects in the game at their respective positions. Gaby Sanchez and Chris Coghlan provide some more polished, lower upside depth, and Sean West, Ryan Tucker, and Jose Ceda give the team some more good arms on the way. Player development is the strength of the Marlins organization, and they continue to excel in this area.

Overall: D

Ownership screws the whole situation up here, as the rest of the franchise actually performs pretty well. With a better owner committed to winning baseball and developing some positive revenue streams, the Marlins could be a force in the NL East. Instead, the good work of their baseball people is wasted as the team acts as a conduit to shift talent to other major league clubs. The Marlins are getting a lot of stuff right, but the overriding direction of the organization is not towards winning, and that cripples the overall health of the organization.




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Dave is a co-founder of USSMariner.com and contributes to the Wall Street Journal.


70 Responses to “Organizational Rankings: #29”

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  1. vivaelpujols says:

    You make Jeff Loria sound like Hitler.

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  2. Hizouse says:

    I’d give Beinfest & Co. a better grade. They did win a WS in 2003 (Beinfest came on board in 2002), and they have managed 3 winning seasons (out of 5) since then. B- seems too low for doing “probably as good as anyone could do, given the circumstances.” I wouldn’t let ownership restraints taint the FO too much.

    That said, if Beinfest really was an “A” GM (he’s now Pres of Baseball Ops), I would expect him to have been hired away by a rich team a long time ago.

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    • Will says:

      Agreed. Doesn’t “it’s probably as good as anyone could do, given the circumstances” mean the front office should get an A? Or does the “probably” relegate them to the B+/A- range?

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  3. ChapelHeel66 says:

    I understand the point about Loria, but how bad can ownership be if it produces two B- grades and a B+? If you’ve got horrible ownership producing a better than average front office, major league talent, and minor league talent, how is that an overall “D”?

    Don’t know which team is next in line for this series, but I bet if they have a high ownership score and something less than B- grades in the other three categories, they’d gladly swap out their owner for a GM and players who could win some ballgames.

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    • ThundaPC says:

      Well, really, all the talent the Marlins have in the system is guaranteed to head elsewhere when the price becomes higher than “really cheap” because their ownership is way too stingy.

      Imagine the Florida Marlins with Josh Beckett still in the rotation for example.

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  4. Disagree says:

    I agree with some of the recent posters. Only three teams have won two World Series during the past fifteen years — the Yankees, the Red Sox, and the Marlins. They seem to know what the hell they’re doing.

    You’ve taken a great organization and dubbed it the second-worst in baseball based largely on your irrational hatred for the owner. Maybe he’s a bad guy, but his franchise has actually done a good job of finding and developing young talent. Arguably one of the very best-run small market teams.

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    • Joe says:

      Please also consider that the Loria was not associated with the team in 1997, and was only in his second year of ownership in 2003. I would suggest that most of that success was due to a front office that included Dave Dombrowski, who was gone before Loria acquisition.

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    • Dave Cameron says:

      This isn’t about how teams have performed in the past. This is about how well they are setup to go in the future.

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      • Dead Wrong says:

        So you’re saying that the Pirates are in better shape than the Marlins?

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      • Matt H. says:

        That is what he is saying. You can agree or disagree, you don’t have to take his list as the be all end all. I choose to disagree with the ranking of the Marlins this low.

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      • Aaron/YYZ says:

        I agree with Dave on this, the Marlins are poisonous at the ownership level so if their front office makes some mistakes (or starts getting hired away), or their farm comes up fallow on some fluke injury or tools busts, then this team could get very bad very quickly.

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  5. Dead Wrong says:

    Did you really just rank the Marlins behind the Pirates in terms of MLB organizations?

    The Pirates have a beautiful new stadium that is a destination for baseball fans around the country. Yet, they still haven’t had a winning season since 1992 and haven’t lost fewer than 90 games since 2004. They’ve had numerous cracks at top draft picks and blown it on players like Bullington, Van Benschoten, and Moskos when they could have had BJ Upton, David Wright, and Matt Wieters among countless others.

    The Marlins stadium on the other hand is one of the worst in baseball. It was made for football and was certainly not made to house summer baseball in Miami. Where the weather is like the Amazon in that it is either really hot, pouring rain or both every day. The Marlins also have a terrible deal with Huizinga in which they get hardly any (perhaps no?) money from concessions and parking.

    And as you said, Loria is a terrible owner.

    Despite all of this they have 4 winning records in the last six years, and 2 world series championships in the last 15 years.

    Front office should be at worst an A-. Just look at some of the moves Beinfest has pulled off picking up Hanley, Sanchez, Nolasco, Cantu, Uggla, and Ross. And great draft picks like Volstad, Dominguez, and Stanton.

    Teams in considerably worse shape than the Marlins: Pirates, Astros, Reds, Nats, O’s, Royals, and Giants to name a few.

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    • vivaelpujols says:

      I agree. I definitely don’t think that the Marlins should be in the bottom 5, much less the 2nd worst.

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    • Dave Cameron says:

      This is not a ranking of how teams have done in the past.

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      • vivaelpujols says:

        Still, isn’t the past somewhat indicative of the future? For the last 10 years, the Marlins have been acting as a “glorified farm team for the rest of baseball”. They have never locked up players long term, and have always developed young talent and traded them away (Beckett, Cabrera, Renteria). Yet they have been one of the more successful franchises of the past decade. Why couldn’t they continue that?

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      • ThundaPC says:

        Me thinks this is going to have to be a disclaimer for each of the remaining 28 rankings along with “This is not an average”.

        I remember when Tampa Bay’s front office was ranked 3rd (A) in 2007 and half the thread was spent pointing out Tampa Bay’s terrible historical team record. I think it’s going to take some people a while to realize that this isn’t necessarily about how the teams have performed on the field but where the organizations currently stand.

        And in this case, I don’t see how Marlins’ ownership DOESN’T drag things down enough to outweight the positives of the rest of the organization. The Marlins may be able to field a pretty good team but how are they going to field a championship calibre team if ownership thinks championship teams costs too much? This team was very fortunate enough to win two World Series titles in two playoff attempts. What if this team is meerly on the cusp of making a championship run? Will it be blown up before that run is realized just to save money?

        Teams are getting smarter and smarter and those teams more often than not have money to spend. The rest of the organization seems to be good enough to be able to field a team that can regularly contend for the division title but has to settle for playing the underdog wild card contender at best due to the team’s payroll.

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      • vivaelpujols says:

        When did I say that this ranking was about how they performed in the field? My whole point was that there current approach had worked for them in the past, therefore Dave shouldn’t be so quick to rip the organization (Loria) for doing what he is doing.

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      • vivaelpujols says:

        And also, what it so wrong with having to “settle for playing the underdog wild card contender at best”? Plenty of teams struggle year in and year out to play .500 ball and there are certainly many current teams in the majors who don’t have much of a shot of doing that in the next 3-4 years. I’m not disagreeing with your assessment of the Marlins, but only there low ranking.

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      • ThundaPC says:

        That’s the thing. Most teams (in theory) want to field a championship team. The Marlins ownership wants to build a cheap team that may or may not contend. From what I can tell, they have only one player (Hanley Ramirez) under a long term deal while a number of players have signed just to avoid arbitration. In the most recent case, Miguel Cabrera was shipped off to Detroit because he was getting too expensive (won his last arbitration case for $7.4 Million before getting traded).

        These player aren’t going to get any cheaper. If ownership isn’t willing to spend money they’ll have to blow up the team and start over again just before the bubble bursts. Meanwhile, fans can only hope that everything breaks right for the Marlins to get in the playoffs and even then, they’re not guaranteed to win it all. They were extremely fortunate to have won two World Series titles in their only playoff appearances but that’s not realistically repeatable under this strategy.

        I’m no expert but I can understand why this organization is ranked pretty low. It’s as if winning consistently is too expensive for them. This group must have a lot of lucky charms lying around if they think this strategy is a good idea.

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      • vivaelpujols says:

        Yes I understand what you are saying, but… the Marlins have been doing this forever. They have never signed anyone significant to a long term deal, besides Hanley and they rarely sign any free agents. They have been able to succeed by trading away there young talent when they get expensive in exchange for more you talent. Then when they have enough young, cheap talent accumulated, they can take a chance on a FA and try to wing it one year.

        It isn’t a great approach, but the Marlins have made it work exceptionally well. I think that they should get the benefit of the doubt for continuing to do it successfully, because it has worked so well for them in the past.

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      • jhrekrojhf says:

        That’s great and everything, but is there a more frustrating team to be a fan of? Given the choice, I’d take the team that doesn’t actively seek new ways to alienate its fan base. That’s gotta count for something…

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      • vivaelpujols says:

        Is that what these rankings are about?

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      • jhrekrojhf says:

        YES.

        Winning ballgames is only half the battle. Not pissing off the people who care about you is the other half.

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      • Jim says:

        What fan base? The Florida Marlins have some of the worst fans in baseball. If 2 world championships doesn’t fill the stands, even during the championship runs (with cheap tickets!), then why would the front office spending money make it any different?

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      • jhrekrojhf says: jhrekrojhf says:

        Are the fans really that bad or does management give them every reason not to care? Where do you draw the line?

        Better management —> better fans

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  6. ratfink says:

    How are the Mariners not #29 on this list???

    Unless getting rid of Hargrove and Bavasi was in itself worth a bump.

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    • vivaelpujols says:

      Getting rid of Bavasi automatically gets them out of cellar.

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    • John says:

      GOING FORWARD. Dave has said that multiple times in this thread.

      The new Mariners GM looks to be in a totally different league than Bavasi.

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    • The Typical Idiot Fan says:

      The M’s have an okay ownership group, even if they do like to fudge the numbers sometimes. Howard Lincoln and Chuck Armstrong are really the last remaining weak points with the M’s FO.

      Beyond that, they do spend money, they have a lot of revenue, a strong international scouting team, a strong domestic scouting team, a middling but improving farm system, some very good talents at the major league level, and going forward their division looks like it could be up for grabs.

      How are the Mariners not the 29th team in baseball you ask? Improvement.

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    • JI says:

      I wouldn’t be surprised to see the M’s in the top 5. They’re one of the best run teams in baseball right now.

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  7. Scott says:

    On October 12, 2007, USSMariner (and the same author, I think) ranked Florida 15th with a grade of “C”:

    http://ussmariner.com/index.php?s=organizational+rankings

    I guess I’m not sure how Florida has fallen so far just one off-season later. If anything, Florida seems to have a better farm system now than they did back then. What has changed?

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  8. Ryan says:

    I actually like the Marlins model. By not commiting to players past their prime of 26-28 years old the team fields players all in their prime and all cheap. And the Florida Marlins are a business, not a charity, with the ownership’s goal being to operate in the black, not win baseball games. (which the Marlins have actually done a lot of recently)

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  9. rwperu34 says:

    Man. If this farm system is a B+, what do you have to do to crack the A list?

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  10. erik says:

    I think I’d give the Marlins an A for their farm system.

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  11. Jim says:

    The Red Sox should also get a very high grade. For a team that hasn’t been getting high draft pick after high draft pick, they pump out the studs like the best of them, and still have plenty left down on the farm.

    To the point though, everyone keeps saying “looking into the future” but how far into the future can you really look? The Mariners have some good prospects, but the MLB team looks atrocious on paper. It will be a long time before that team can even touch this year’s Marlins team. The Pirates are equally atrocious, and have 2 worth while prospects in Alvarez and Mccutchen. Yes, maybe the Marlins organization is run by cheap bastards, but that is a good looking team right now! And they have never been a high payroll franchise, but they have still managed to win 2 world championships in their short tenure. Why does the same strategy suddenly give them no chance of sniffing a championship?

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  12. B says:

    Wow, this ranking doesn’t make sense on so many levels…where to start?

    Looking to the future, how can you rank them behind the Astros? It’s a pretty solid consensus that the Astros aren’t really much of a playoff team now, and their farm system is a joke. The Marlins may not spend the money to be the best team in baseball, but they put a competetive product out there almost every year, and with a still loaded farm system, why wouldn’t this continue? Sure the Marlins tend to trade away good players, but they get at least as much value back in return. Sure they don’t have Josh Beckett anymore, they only have a Hanley Ramirez guy. I’ve heard he’s kind of good?

    Second, ownership group…they actually make a profit in a business. They must suck. In all seriousness though, as fans obviously we want our owner to spend his fortune winning championships, and the Marlins don’t do this…but have you seen how many fans attend their games? I’m under the impression their ticket prices are fairly low, and even when they put a world series winning product out on the field, nobody comes to their games. Why would an owner spend money on the best team possible when fans don’t come anyways? They’ve still managed to be competetive without spending money. Also, the ownership makes the ultimate decision on hiring people, and the job the baseball people do does reflect positively on the ownership.

    The bottom line is the though the Marlins aren’t #1, and they may not be spending as much money to win as other teams, there are a lot of teams out there wasting money, without the major league talent the Marlins have now, without the minor league talent the Marlins have now, and without the baseball people the Marlins have now. Even if the Marlins don’t keep guys like Hanley around, they’ll look to trade them for the next generation of talent. You clearly have something against the ownership group (which I understand and is fine), but you’ve taken it WAY too far. All I’m saying is this: Pittsburg, San Diego, Houston, Seattle, Baltimore, Detroit, and Kansas City haven’t been listed yet, but the Marlins have, and that’s just a mistake.

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  13. Rob in CT says:

    I’ll add to the chorus that says this is too harsh. There are some other teams – the Pirates, Royals and Astros spring to mind – who are as bad or worse now and lack the sort of track record the Marlins front office has. They’ve got skills. Meanwhile, KC is signing Kyle Farnsworth and it’s not clear to me that Pittsburgh is even trying. The Astros… I don’t even know what they’re doing. The Marlins have a plan. That plan involves fielding a team on the cheap and contending only intermittantly, true. But it works a lot better than the flailings of some other franchises.

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  14. Mike Green says:

    How you rate an organization depends on what you’re trying to measure. If you’re trying to measure the likelihood of the team winning a World Series within the next 10 years, the Marlins are much underrated. If you’re trying to measure the level of (dis)satisfaction with the organization from reasonable fans, they might be #30.

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  15. Jim says:

    This is a quote from the Atros thread from Dave.

    “The Astros want to win – they’re just going about trying the wrong way.

    The Marlins want to make a profit and blackmail a city into giving them a new stadium, and if they accidentally win 85 games in the process, nifty.”

    I thought these rankings were based on who is more likely to win a World Series, not who wants one more. No matter how much the Astros want to win, there is no hope in sight for that organization. There is absolutely no way that the Astros are going to win a world series in the next 5 years. Absolutely no chance. The Marlins, with their strategy, are always going to be a fringe competitor and will have a much greater chance of making the playoffs and winning a world series in any given year than an awful team that is ranked ahead of them simply because of better ownership. They could make the playoffs this year with the right luck. They have a steady stream of talented minor leaguers who will come up to replace the homegrown superstars that their black-hearted ownership lets go. Notice I didn’t mention the past at all in this post.

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    • B says:

      I agree with you. Basically Dave’s arguing that despite not having the players to win now, the farm system to develop a core to win later, a talented front office to lead the team in the right direction, an owner capable of hiring good baseball people (and letting them do good baseball things), and most of its money locked up long-term, the fact that the Astros owner spends money is more important than what the Marlins bring to the table.

      Sorry for the hostility Dave, I just hope you see you’ve downgraded the Marlins a little too far on the basis of their owner trying to make a profit. They still have a lot going for them on the field.

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      • Gina says:

        I think the problem is that those players in the system who could make up a core to win later are likely going to be moved before they have a chance to be there at the same time and make up a team that can actually win. They’d basically all have to develop at the same time which obviously will never happen. So they have Hanley, Uggla, and I guess Hermida now, with Maybin getting a chance and a lot of young pitchers, but by the time Maybin and the young pitchers are where Hanley and Uggla are at now, Hanley and Uggla may no longer be there. Like how now that Hanley and Uggla are as good as they are Cabrera’s gone. It seems like they’ll always have a good enough talent coming out of the system to keep them in the 80 win range but players will be traded before they can really combine to make up a winning team.

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      • B says:

        I think that’s a good point Gina, and I agree with you. My thoughts are this – all it takes is a couple of years for the Marlins making the playoffs, which they are certainly capable of with their talent. Once you get into the playoffs, anything can (and does) happen. Is it the best model for consistently winning the world series? No. I just figure they at least have a chance of stealing another world series with their current talent and pipeline of talent, compared to some other franchises like the Mariners, Royals, Astros, Pirates and Padres that have no chance of winning a world series now and into the foreseeable future.

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  16. deflated says:

    Interesting. As a former fan of the Expos (never the Nationals) I don’t think some people realize just how toxic Jeffery Loria is as an owner. The two years spent running that team into the ground to facilitate MLB’s contraction plans (and a big payout to him) followed by the slow deconstruction of the talented Marlins team he inherited is more than sad.

    The man has never done one thing in his ten years as an owner other than maximize profit, even if it involved dissolving the franchise entirely. He has never spent one dollar toward winning. The current roster is still populated with the returns from the firesale of talent acquired prior to Loria’s ownership and the current front office.

    The Marlins have a nice past but their future does not look healthy.

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    • Erik Siegrist says:

      “The current roster is still populated with the returns from the firesale of talent acquired prior to Loria’s ownership and the current front office.”

      No, it’s not. Not even close. Josh Johnson, Dan Uggla, Jeremy Hermida, Matt Lindstrom, Ricky Nolasco, Chris Volstad, Cody Ross… all ‘pure’ Beinfest players, and that’s hardly the end of the list. Not to mention the credit he should get for actually cashing in on the fire sales of players like Beckett and Cabrera (both Dombrowski signings), unlike say, the Twins and Johan Santana.

      I fully understand the Loria hatred, but this is simply an indefensible, asinine ranking. The Marlins have a better chance of winning a World Series in the next five years than half the clubs in baseball, toxic owner or no toxic owner.

      If Dave wanted to generate a bit of controversy, mission accomplished. If he wanted to seem a credible judge of MLB organizations, epic fail.

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  17. Jason T says:

    Loria is turning a profit because he gets money from teams like the Yankees, Red Sox and M’s in revenue sharing. His business model is to muddle along, trade away players in arbitration and pillage the farm systems of other teams in those trades. The problem with that is, A) baseball isn’t a numbers game for 95% of fans, it’s an emotional attachment, and B) teams are getting a lot smarter about identifying and not trading away really good, young talent.

    Seriously, it’s not as if he’s some kind of business genius. The only reason he exists as an owner at all is because MLB (in their infinite wisdom) wants him around. Either the Marlins get that stadium or MLB will move the team with the economy picks up. Loria really should own an NBA team.

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    • B says:

      I’ve never understood how the owners of other teams (especially teams like the Yankees that pull in so much revenue and then contribute so much to revenue sharing) let him do this. It’s one thing to have a low payroll, but the Marlins take in more money from revenue sharing than they spend. If I was another owner, I’d be pissed – they’re essentially freeloading on the backs of teams that actually make money. It seems like it would be so easy to put a salary floor at the level of revenue sharing a team receives.

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  18. Gina says:

    I’d agree that it’s too harsh but not to the extent that some have said. I think they should probably be ahead of some teams, like KC maybe and the Astros, who spend more money but are ran by idiots. Although I guess in their cases there’s a much much better chance of an intelligent gm being hired than there is of the Marlins getting a real owner. Though really I don’t think any of their trades shipping off expensive players have been bad, I love Cabrera but with his move to first/defense/weight his value/value going foward takes a big hit, and it seems like Maybin and Whitworth, I think that’s his name, will be more valuable.

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  19. cubfanraysaddict says:

    worst/least defensible Cameron post ever, the owner is horrible obviously, but the team still runs like a well oiled machine after strip mining their major league talent year after year, Dave needs to step up to the plate and defend further his argument or admit the mistake this article was. Using the argument ‘not about past performance, but the future’ is b.s., the Marlins have a great future in front of them even if they add no one new and get rid of their 3rd/4th year arb players.

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  20. Skoodog says:

    1) They’re the most profitable team in baseball.
    2) They won a couple of World Series while being one of the youngest expansion teams.
    3) Their farm is loaded w/ talent from hitting to pitching.

    Great comedic article. My faves:

    “The Marlins have their young superstar locked up long term, but with their payroll, they’ll continue to struggle to get enough good position players around him.” (followed by the next paragraph which praises of Dominguez, Morrison and Skipworth)

    “Ricky Nolasco is an all-star in the making, and it’s tough to find a better group of arms than Josh Johnson, Chris Volstad, Andrew Miller, and Anibal Sanchez rounding out the rotation.” (I almost fell out of my chair when i read Nolasco and all-star in the same sentence. Drew Miller has some chance but the others are wraught with issues from physical to mental health)

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    • Bob Bastard says:

      Did you happen to miss the part where Nolasco posted an 11 to 1 strikeout-to-walk ratio over his last twenty starts?

      And you say Dave is the comedian…

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  21. Gary says:

    Everyones screaming, “The ownership needs to fork out more dough!!!” The Orioles have spent money, Toronto, Kansas City etc, and it hasn’t brought them squat. The Marlins ownership spends money when they have a shot at winning.

    Remember this is the team that signed Carlos Delgado, Pudge. Brought in Gary Sheffield, Kevin Brown, and kept AJ Burnett and Mike Lowell when it would have been easy to trade them.

    The team doesn’t have the cash to consistently field high dollar players, they wait for their opportunity and then strike. Lets say they traded for Javier Vazquez last year, or signed Carlos Silva/Kyle Lohse, does that get them over the top? Probably not, but it may cripple the franchise long term.

    This year or next, the Marlins will put it all together, one or two starters will become the cy young candidates they need, somebody will develop to protect Hanley, and then the ownership will commit dollars like in 1997 and 2003, signing a closer or some necessary piece, and BAM!! Party time in South Florida, or at least a good shot at it.

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  22. KingKirkpatrick says:

    So….implying that Loria is worse than Hitler is okay, but a dumb little fart joke isn’t??? Good to know. This site is pretty ridiculous sometimes.

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  23. JT says:

    Well, I’ve read through #25-28, and I’ve yet to find a team with a better chance at a WS than the Marlins over the next 4 or so years.

    Let’s assume a bad case scenario–that Loria will not spend any real money. Even so, they still have lots of high upside major and minor leaguers who can pan out and provide great performances at no salary. A great young rotation whose biggest issue is health means there’s plenty of potential for a nice 2H/playoff run where everything clicks. Some good hitting talent, a good eye for cheap filler talent in the front office, and potential in Maybin, Morrison, Stanton means they can have a real shot at a WS without any big FA signings.

    I’d much rather have that than the Royals prospects for a WS. Even if the Royals have more dollars–the Marlins has a front office that knows how to value players. Even with few dollars, the Marlins have decent odds to pull off another version of their previous 2 WS runs.

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  24. ThundaPC says:

    Don’t look now but,

    The city complies.

    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090323&content_id=4055912&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

    Marlins’ ballpark vote passes
    Retractable-roof stadium slated for 2012 opening

    This certainly shakes up the future quite a bit.

    Vote -1 Vote +1

  25. Brian says:

    Wow, I would unquestionably put this team in the top 5. Has any team ever been better at drafting young talent than the Marlins? It takes almost no skill to win when you have a market that is 11x bigger than miami such as NYC, but to win in Miami is a near miracle. It is the poorest city above a million people in the USA and it is has almost no extended market. So give this team a break. They are geniuses to even be able to win 60 games not to mention two World Series.

    If a third team was added to NYC it would still have the three biggest revenue teams in the country. So winning their takes zero skill. Losing there shows the Yankees are absolutely clueless about how to build a franchise. They just throw money at it.

    Vote -1 Vote +1

  26. Marlins fan since '91 says:

    Well, well, well, as a Marlins fan since Miami was awarded the team in 1991, all my arguments have been made for me. Thanks all!

    Dave comes across as a delusional fool. I would put the Marlins’ accomplishments up against any team in baseball. Their future looks bright as well, with a talented young team, a good young manager, a fantastic GM and a stocked minor league system that is the envy of most of the teams in baseball.

    Oh, and I forgot to mention, Loria and Samson accomplished what two other ownership groups were unable to do in 10 years — secure a new stadium! That makes all the difference in the world for this team’s future.

    So, despite Dave’s almost irrational hatred, Loria has been a successful owner – a world series championship, winning records in four of the past six years and a new stadium. Not too damn shabby.

    All in all, I’d say that, while not the traditional way of running a team, this is one of the best run organizations in baseball.

    Vote -1 Vote +1

  27. Andrew says:

    B- is absolute nonsense for this front office. How does “the best job anyone could do” = a B-.

    I get it, Dave. You don’t like Loria. No one in Miami does either, I promise. The way you use that to justify ranking the Marlins 29 (a joke considering their past success and the abundance of talent on their roster and in their farm system) and to give the rest of the team shockingly low grades (seriously Beinfast has been as good as Billy Beane with LESS to work with) is nonsense.

    The Pirates WISH they were the Marlins and so do a bunch of other crappy franchises. It is very hard to take this website seriously reading a hatchet job like this.

    Vote -1 Vote +1

  28. Dave is right, this team will not be winning a ring any time soon. As of May 31st they have a 0% shot the playoffs and this is likely Dan Uggla’s last year as a Marlin. This team has a history full of players who were once talented prospects turned bust (Josh Willingham, Scott Olsen,and Jeremy Herimda) and some of players listed in the minor league talent will suffer the same fate, and those are aren’t will just get traded once their salary demands get too high. How many years do you think Hanley has left before he gets dealt? Two, three?

    Vote -1 Vote +1

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