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	<title>Comments on: Return Of The Two-Division Format, Part 3</title>
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	<description>Daily baseball statistical analysis and commentary</description>
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		<title>By: RogPodge</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/return-of-the-two-division-format-part-3/#comment-501484</link>
		<dc:creator>RogPodge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Jan 2011 00:02:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=39993#comment-501484</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I wasn&#039;t suggesting that the league should add new teams.  I was arguing that the league should be careful about alienating fans from those regions because they offer the best opportunities to increase league-wide revenue.  The way the population is migrating in the US is likely to decrease popularity and revenue for teams in the north east and industrial midwest while increasing it in the south and southwest.  As these areas become &quot;home&quot; to new residents and their kids, teams like the Rangers, Astros, Padres and Diamondbacks in high growth regions will have their wealth relative to the rest of the league increase.  It will be more difficult for people to build up their loyalty to these teams if the league switched to a 2-division format and it would depress long term growth for the league.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wasn&#8217;t suggesting that the league should add new teams.  I was arguing that the league should be careful about alienating fans from those regions because they offer the best opportunities to increase league-wide revenue.  The way the population is migrating in the US is likely to decrease popularity and revenue for teams in the north east and industrial midwest while increasing it in the south and southwest.  As these areas become &#8220;home&#8221; to new residents and their kids, teams like the Rangers, Astros, Padres and Diamondbacks in high growth regions will have their wealth relative to the rest of the league increase.  It will be more difficult for people to build up their loyalty to these teams if the league switched to a 2-division format and it would depress long term growth for the league.</p>
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		<title>By: AJS</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/return-of-the-two-division-format-part-3/#comment-500024</link>
		<dc:creator>AJS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jan 2011 08:57:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=39993#comment-500024</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m not sure cities with lots of people of Hispanic descent are actually the best place for MLB to expand. It seems they have relatively low MLB attendance compared to other cities.

The Los Angeles MSA is 44% Hispanic, based on 2009 Census data, and LA teams were 3rd and 5th in average home attendance in 2010. But I&#039;d argue LA is big enough (nearly 13 million people) that it can fill a ballpark (or two) regardless. 

So taking LA as an outlier, here are the next five MLB markets based on the percentage of people identifying as Spanish in the MSA, and their 2010 attendance rank.

Miami (40% Hispanic, 28th in attendance)
Houston (34%, 16th)
Phoenix (32%, 21st)
San Diego (31%, 18th)
Dallas (28%, 14th)

That would give me pause about expanding into a place like San Antonio. Also, while SA supports the Spurs, adding another team would bring it down to just 1 million people per team. Meantime, Omaha has no teams, so adding a team there would bring it to about 850,000 people per team. Not a huge difference. I think a more affluent and, yes, whiter, area like Omaha is actually where MLB should be looking. Population growth doesn&#039;t necessarily equal revenue.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure cities with lots of people of Hispanic descent are actually the best place for MLB to expand. It seems they have relatively low MLB attendance compared to other cities.</p>
<p>The Los Angeles MSA is 44% Hispanic, based on 2009 Census data, and LA teams were 3rd and 5th in average home attendance in 2010. But I&#8217;d argue LA is big enough (nearly 13 million people) that it can fill a ballpark (or two) regardless. </p>
<p>So taking LA as an outlier, here are the next five MLB markets based on the percentage of people identifying as Spanish in the MSA, and their 2010 attendance rank.</p>
<p>Miami (40% Hispanic, 28th in attendance)<br />
Houston (34%, 16th)<br />
Phoenix (32%, 21st)<br />
San Diego (31%, 18th)<br />
Dallas (28%, 14th)</p>
<p>That would give me pause about expanding into a place like San Antonio. Also, while SA supports the Spurs, adding another team would bring it down to just 1 million people per team. Meantime, Omaha has no teams, so adding a team there would bring it to about 850,000 people per team. Not a huge difference. I think a more affluent and, yes, whiter, area like Omaha is actually where MLB should be looking. Population growth doesn&#8217;t necessarily equal revenue.</p>
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		<title>By: AJS</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/return-of-the-two-division-format-part-3/#comment-499955</link>
		<dc:creator>AJS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jan 2011 08:29:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=39993#comment-499955</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Actually, the NHL brought in the &quot;2 points for a win and 1 for an overtime loss&quot; to have teams &lt;b&gt;avoid&lt;/b&gt; playing for the tie once in overtime. Prior to that rule, the thinking went, teams were reluctant to go out all out once in overtime, for fear of ending up with no points at all. To that end, it was slightly effective at increasing the quality of play in overtime (before the NHL eliminated the tie entirely). 

But you&#039;re right, since the NHL has eliminated the tie (meaning one team gets two points in every game) -- giving one point for an OT loss does incentivize playing to get to OT rather than winning in regulation. 

What the NHL should do is switch to a system that awards 3 points for a regulation win, 2 points for an OT win and 1 point for an OT loss. It&#039;s likely fewer games would go to OT. 

/off-topic]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, the NHL brought in the &#8220;2 points for a win and 1 for an overtime loss&#8221; to have teams <b>avoid</b> playing for the tie once in overtime. Prior to that rule, the thinking went, teams were reluctant to go out all out once in overtime, for fear of ending up with no points at all. To that end, it was slightly effective at increasing the quality of play in overtime (before the NHL eliminated the tie entirely). </p>
<p>But you&#8217;re right, since the NHL has eliminated the tie (meaning one team gets two points in every game) &#8212; giving one point for an OT loss does incentivize playing to get to OT rather than winning in regulation. </p>
<p>What the NHL should do is switch to a system that awards 3 points for a regulation win, 2 points for an OT win and 1 point for an OT loss. It&#8217;s likely fewer games would go to OT. </p>
<p>/off-topic</p>
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		<title>By: RogPodge</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/return-of-the-two-division-format-part-3/#comment-498581</link>
		<dc:creator>RogPodge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Jan 2011 19:38:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=39993#comment-498581</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Most fans of NL teams hate the dh.  I don&#039;t think you&#039;ll find any teams that are willing to move to the AL.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most fans of NL teams hate the dh.  I don&#8217;t think you&#8217;ll find any teams that are willing to move to the AL.</p>
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		<title>By: RogPodge</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/return-of-the-two-division-format-part-3/#comment-498576</link>
		<dc:creator>RogPodge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Jan 2011 19:34:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=39993#comment-498576</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree.  The NFL really took off in popularity when they instituted a salary cap and every team had a reasonable chance of making the playoffs.  While the MLB has had many different champions, the teams that make the playoffs are usually 3 big-spenders and one team that had all of their young, cheap, team-controlled talent peak at the same time.  

When I talk to people who aren&#039;t baseball fans but are fans of other sports, the most common reason for why they can&#039;t get into baseball is because they feel like teams are playing with a stacked deck.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree.  The NFL really took off in popularity when they instituted a salary cap and every team had a reasonable chance of making the playoffs.  While the MLB has had many different champions, the teams that make the playoffs are usually 3 big-spenders and one team that had all of their young, cheap, team-controlled talent peak at the same time.  </p>
<p>When I talk to people who aren&#8217;t baseball fans but are fans of other sports, the most common reason for why they can&#8217;t get into baseball is because they feel like teams are playing with a stacked deck.</p>
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		<title>By: RogPodge</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/return-of-the-two-division-format-part-3/#comment-498565</link>
		<dc:creator>RogPodge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Jan 2011 19:28:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=39993#comment-498565</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A switch back to a 2-division format doesn&#039;t make good business sense.

1) Decreasing television revenue for cst and pst teams due to playing away games two hours later or earlier with greater frequency
2) An overall fall in fan support for western division teams due to such a widely varying schedule.
3) The high likelihood that the AL East will produce both wildcard teams and the very low likelihood that the AL West will 
4) The potential for regional decline in league support due to the previous factors

I think it&#039;s a given that teams have lower ratings the further away the start time is from that of their home game.  On the second point, the more often that a casual fan just checks to see if there&#039;s a game on now and finds that it&#039;s already half over or that it hasn&#039;t started yet, they are likely to “check if a game is on” less frequently and generally be less invested in their team. I think the third point is a given, considering the differences in wealth between the AL East and AL West teams and the author&#039;s analysis.  

These things disproportionately affect teams in the Western divisions whose teams are located in the south and southwest - the fastest growing regions of the country.  These are also the markets with the most appealing demographics for expansion (not with more teams, but in market penetration).  The people there are young and of hispanic descent.  It would be foolish to weaken the MLB in Chicago, LA, Texas and the west coast just because, occasionally, an 86 win team makes the playoffs while an 89 win team does not.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A switch back to a 2-division format doesn&#8217;t make good business sense.</p>
<p>1) Decreasing television revenue for cst and pst teams due to playing away games two hours later or earlier with greater frequency<br />
2) An overall fall in fan support for western division teams due to such a widely varying schedule.<br />
3) The high likelihood that the AL East will produce both wildcard teams and the very low likelihood that the AL West will<br />
4) The potential for regional decline in league support due to the previous factors</p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s a given that teams have lower ratings the further away the start time is from that of their home game.  On the second point, the more often that a casual fan just checks to see if there&#8217;s a game on now and finds that it&#8217;s already half over or that it hasn&#8217;t started yet, they are likely to “check if a game is on” less frequently and generally be less invested in their team. I think the third point is a given, considering the differences in wealth between the AL East and AL West teams and the author&#8217;s analysis.  </p>
<p>These things disproportionately affect teams in the Western divisions whose teams are located in the south and southwest &#8211; the fastest growing regions of the country.  These are also the markets with the most appealing demographics for expansion (not with more teams, but in market penetration).  The people there are young and of hispanic descent.  It would be foolish to weaken the MLB in Chicago, LA, Texas and the west coast just because, occasionally, an 86 win team makes the playoffs while an 89 win team does not.</p>
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		<title>By: bpdelia</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/return-of-the-two-division-format-part-3/#comment-498137</link>
		<dc:creator>bpdelia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Jan 2011 14:01:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/?p=39993#comment-498137</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My problem with the whole thing is that no matter what you do the top 3 teams will be pretty much locked in and therefore will cruise to the end.  Because there isn&#039;t enough of an advantage in one extra playoff game at home.

My idea is that because baseball is different (plays 162) we have a league that does a great job separating the wheat from the chaff.  That 162 game season should mean more.

In my opinion the #1 seed playoff team should get 4 games at home. in the first round.  That would keep teams playing until the end.  Now to advance to the ALCS the #4 see would need to at least win 3 of 4 in the #1 seeds stadium.  SO now the difference between being a one seed and a four seed is huge.  Likewise the difference between being one and 2 is huge.  Teams will play hard to get that one seed, and they will play hard to avoid the four, and it does a better job making 162 mean something.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My problem with the whole thing is that no matter what you do the top 3 teams will be pretty much locked in and therefore will cruise to the end.  Because there isn&#8217;t enough of an advantage in one extra playoff game at home.</p>
<p>My idea is that because baseball is different (plays 162) we have a league that does a great job separating the wheat from the chaff.  That 162 game season should mean more.</p>
<p>In my opinion the #1 seed playoff team should get 4 games at home. in the first round.  That would keep teams playing until the end.  Now to advance to the ALCS the #4 see would need to at least win 3 of 4 in the #1 seeds stadium.  SO now the difference between being a one seed and a four seed is huge.  Likewise the difference between being one and 2 is huge.  Teams will play hard to get that one seed, and they will play hard to avoid the four, and it does a better job making 162 mean something.</p>
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