The First Moves for Cubs GM Theo Epstein
News broke this morning that Red Sox President of Baseball Operations (the de facto Red Sox GM) Theo Epstein and the Chicago Cubs have agreed to, though not finalized, terms which will bring the Yale grad to Chicago’s Northside. The deal appears to be worth $20M over five years, but the Cubs will undoubtedly need to send compensation (say, a prospect or some Benjamins) the Red Sox’s way — which may well escalate the cost beyond what’s beneficial to the Cubs.
If the compensation package includes a number of significant prospects, this may well result in Theo Epstein starting from scratch as the Cubs GM. So, let’s assume he is starting with a largely depleted farm system (one that was half-depleted in the Matt Garza trade). What moves does Epstein need to make immediately? And no, extending John Grabow is not one of them.
1) Fill the Front Office
The Jim Hendry regime nearly took pride in how small their front office was. They had scouts, sure, but their “statistics department” had long consisted of one man, Chuck Wasserstrom, until Cubs owner Tom Ricketts doubled their staff, bringing in Ari Kaplan and presumably purchasing a few more bristles for their push-broom.
From what we have heard so far, it sounds like most of the Red Sox front office would remain in tact, everyone shifting one seat up, in the event Epstein leaves. This means he will likely not bring a full staff of his own men with him.
So he has the monumental task of building a whole new front office from the disparate front offices from around the league. A few names I would try for: Gerry Hunsicker, former Astros GM and current Senior VP of Baseball Operations in Tampa Bay. He could make an invaluable assistant GM, though prying anyone away from the Rays seems impossible these days.
There is also a deep pool of near-GMs who might be looking for a change of scenery. Kim Ng could be a very powerful asset, having likely ingratiated herself with the MLB headquarters and the decision-makers therein. Guys like Rick Hahn would be good gets, but difficult to acquire because the movement would be more lateral than vertical.
Also I would strongly consider, slash, desperately pursue bringing in the likes of Tom Tango (Tango Tiger) or Mitchel Lichtman (MGL) for chief analyst or even assistant GM roles. If the Red Sox were able to get Bill James, why wouldn’t these standard of baseball research be within reach?
Guys in the minor league department, such as VP Oneri Fleita, appear relatively safe in the coming overturn, but no one can say for certain right now. Epstein may choose to just obliterate the whole Thing and start fresh.
2) Trade Zambrano, Trade Soriano, Trade Byrd, Trade Soto
It’s time for the Cubs to have an old-fashioned, South Coast Boutique fire sale. Granted, last year’s team was not really 71-wins bad, but it certainly was in no way 88-wins good.
Surprisingly, the NL Central had two teams in the 90-win bracket this year, meaning the Cubs will likely need a lot — a LOT — of overhaul to assemble a playoff team. Frankly, I don’t see that much true talent floating out there for sale.
It’s safe to anticipate Carlos Zambrano, beleaguered, will not be a Chicago Cub next year. The Marlins have an interest in reuniting dinner buddies Carlos Zambrano and Ozzie Guillen, but the Cubs owe Big Z upwards of $18M in 2012, and they’d be liable to pay $10M of that to make the trade appealing.
Meanwhile, Alfonso Soriano, earning $19M until the mid-season elections of Sarah Palin’s first presidential term, appears now to be an outfielder of the 3-WAR-ceiling variety and most likely a lefty-mashing platoon partner, nowhere near worth his bloated contract. Theo could conceivably wrangle a Vernon Wells-type trade, absorbing some of the contract hit while receving a few mid-level prospects in return.
Also, Marlon Byrd — under-payed and well-loved — could net a dandy return, as could Geovany Soto (age 29 next year), who is near his peak and could be out of his prime when the Cubs are finally competitive again. Both these guys definitely help the Cubs win games, but neither are world-beater, franchise players, yet they could potentially bring in some 18 or 19-year-old who becomes one.
3) Say Good Bye to Ramirez, Pena, and 2012
Aramis Ramirez does not get enough credit around the league, it would seem, for his mash-tastic ways. He had another crazy good season with the bat in 2011 (133 wRC+), but the $12M $16M mutual option (I knew something seemed fishy!) for 2012 does not make a lot of sense for a team unlikely to see October. The Cubs could attempt a sign-and-trade, but it would most likely result in Ramirez staying in Chicago for another year.
Meanwhile, Carlos Pena, who put up a strong season after a Greenland-cold start, could come to the Cubs cheap, but the team’s situation — and the presence of relatively young Brian LaHair — makes Pena a better fit elsewhere.
Altogether, this proposed to-do list looks like a fully-booted 2012 season — and that’s precisely what it should be. The Cubs 25-man roster is old (ignoring Mr. Andrew Cashner and Sr. Starlin Castro) and not competitive. The only solution to that is trying to turn as many of those old guys into cheap, young farm upgrades.
Given the Cubs $130M budget range, they could conceivably be in contention in 2013 or 2014, but with their present dearth of pitching depth and elite players (the Cubs haven’t had a 7 bWAR player since Sammy Sosa, and only 1 time in 19 years; the Cardinals have had at least one for 11 of the last 14 years), they would need quite a few Jose Bautista-type surprises to win anything meaningful in 2012.
If and when Theo Epstein becomes the next Cubs GM, the Northside faithful need to fully anticipate lots of personnel changes and — more importantly — a very rough and young 2012.
“If the Red Sox were able to get Bill James, why wouldn’t these standard of baseball research be within reach?”
They’re not out of reach. Tom Tango is currently a consultant for both the Blue Jays and the Mariners (or, at least has been for them in the past).
Yes, but it would behoove the Cubs to hire them full-time, so they wouldn’t be offering nuggets of brilliance to other teams in the league. That’s more of what I meant to say.
Would Tom sacrifice his anonymity?
Brad- While I agree with your general view on this, Ramirez’s mutual option is for $16 million, and Ramirez has already stated that he’s going to reject it. He wants a multi-year deal. Odds are you see the Cubs pick up the option, Ramirez reject it, the Cubs offer Ramirez arbitration, Ramirez reject it, and then the Cubs getting a sandwich pick for it.
That does appear to be the plan. And a fine one it is too.
Okay, yeah I was thinking that, but I didn’t have a source on hand to back up that recollection. Either way, at the price he’ll demand, the Cubs don’t need him.
South Coast Boutique? They’re having a fire sale!?
Quick question – am I panicked about the fire, or am I being brave for everyone else?
Oh, the burning! It burns me! Evacuate all the schoolchildren!
A-ma-zi-ing gra-a-a-ce….
There’s a FIRE! sale.
The Cubs, the Cubs, the Cubs are on fire. The Cubs, the Cubs, the Cubs are on fire. We don’t need no water….
Hey Chicago, whaddaya say? The Cubs are gonna burn today.
Just keep any lanterns away from the cows and it shouldn’t be too bad.
Keep the Chicago soccer team away too.
I like the idea of bringing on MGL or Tango. I know Tango comments in here from time to time. Be interesting to see if either would be interested if offered a job.
Didn’t MGL have a job with the Cardinals for a while until his insufferable personality put that to an end?
MGL is the feature of the day around the saber-sites.
There is so much about the guys I talk to that I don’t know.
I think it was Tony La Russa’s insufferable personality that put an end to that.
While I know that was Mickey’s version of things, I don’t know anyone who’s ever spent more than 30 minutes in a room with him who hasn’t had a strong urge to punch him. I have no problem believing that Busch Stadium was not large enough to fit both both TLR and MGL’s heads.
I’ve met with MGL in person, spent quite a bit more than 30 minutes with him, and found him to be a perfectly fine human being…
I know nothing about his time with the Cardinals or its end, and I suspect you don’t either. Why don’t you just stick to your own interactions with him – if he’s pissed you off personally somehow, go ahead and talk about that, but this “punch” business is way over the top…
Like Greg said, I’ve met mgl twice now, went out to dinner, and greatly enjoy talking baseball with him.
What of Mike Quade?
Gone, I imagine. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a little Dave Martinez rumor action starting up again.
Dave Martinez always has a little rumor action going around town.
Heh Heh
Sign jose Reyes to a 7yr/$142m deal.
Sweet Jesus, no.
no? how about signing Edwin Jackson to a 5yr/$82.5m contract, then?
Good God you are everywhere…
“everdiso”? You can’t fool us that easily, Doug Melvin.
I’m pretty sure those are making fun of Epstein’s recent mofesd (Lackey, Crawford), not Melvin’s.
Wasn’t Soriano around 7 years, $140MM, and Zambrano’s extension around 5 years, $85MM? Maybe Epstein looks up to Hendry after all!
16M mutual option*
which Aramis has declared he is opting out of, and the buyout will be void as long as the Cubs accept it.
also to note, it’s funny you use bWAR when saying the Cubs have had a 7 WAR player since Sosa, when fWAR says Soriano was a 7 WAR player in 07′
And Lee was put up a 7.4 fWAR in ’05.
bWAR is batting WAR, rWAR is b-ref WAR. Soriano was worth 22.3 batting runs that year, which is nowhere remotely close to 7 WAR.
isnt batting WAR oWAR, as in offensive WAR?
out of curiosity, how do bWAR and fWAR differ on position player WAR? I know how they differ on pitcher WAR. Is it just defense?
fWAR uses wRAA and wRC+ as the offensive portion and UZR as the defensive portion, while rWAR uses OPS+ and TZ.
Sign Tito as the manager for 2012.
Good article, one suggestion regarding the graph – it might make the inconsistency of the Cubs (or any other team) a bit more evident if you had the y-axis start at replacement level instead of 0.
Yeah, I strongly considered that, but felt the result may have come across a bit too deceptive.
Inconsistent has an “e” in it.
Not every time.
So we’re clear, Theo needs to:
a) hire smart people, like stats people and stuff
b) get rid of the bad contracts
Someone be sure to forward this to Epstein’s new office.
lucky theo is a yale grad not sure if anyone else could have figured that one out
Hendry didn’t.
Out of curiosity, is Step 4 “Get Good Players to Replace the Bad Ones”?
hendry would require some sort of childrens television-level assistance to puzzle his way through this.
“So we’re looking for the bad players…hmm…how would we tell? Soriano, what’s that blue pawprint on your back for?”
c) ?????
d) Profit
Theo needs to cut a deal with the underpant gnomes for sure.
Bradley,
It is okay to send this to an editor first. I love reading your articles and some of your work is, dare I say, ahead of your constituents. Nonetheless, I would take you more seriously as a writer if you spelled “inconsistent” and “overpaid” correctly.
Nope, not trying to be a d-bag here. Just saying, spelling and grammar matters to some of us.
Thanks for you work. Nice piece here.
Jamie,
Thanks for being complimentative and polite. I am only displeased at the implication that I do not care about spelling and grammar. I do in fact send this work to a professional editor every time I write one of these, unfortunately, he is a touch hurried and — though he catches a great many mistakes that the public never sees — he also is the piece’s author, so sometimes he misses a few here and there and sometimes leaves typos in deliberately because they appear mildly humorous to him — to go with his penchant for inventing words, like “complimentative” — and they act as an homage to the 16th century artisans who would deliberately put at least one mistake into each piece they did to remind themselves they were but imperfect creatures.
Please do keep reading and forgiving my mistakes.
-Brad
The author has constituents?
Am I the only one who noticed that a comment criticizing grammar and spelling had the phrase “thanks for you work?”
Maybe we’re to believe the comment’s author shares Woodrum’s penchant for leaving in errors to entertain himself.
@Jamie — the second sentence of your second paragraph should read “…spelling and grammar matter to some of us.”
Fangraphs law: he who complains about grammatical or syntactical errors invariably makes one of his own in the process of complaining.
I doesn’t make those mistakes!
I NEVER make such egergious mistakes!
Considering that some of the fangraphs staff seems to have an amicable relationship with Tom Tango would it have been possible to do some investigative journalism and find out if Tango Tiger would be interested in working for the Cubs?
I’m amazed that there still isn’t a team that has paid to get his intelligent insights all for themselves.
Yeah, me too. I’m guessing there must be a combo of not getting the right offer and him liking where he’s at professionally right now.
MLB job = no more writing.
Why start with the basis that he has a completely depleted farm?
They arent giving up anything of value as compenstion for theo. He’s got a major league ready CFer in Brett Jackson. Starting 2b should be DJ Lemahieu. Everything I’ve read has told me they had a great draft this past year
Everyone talks about how the Garza trade depleted the system. Yes Lee is a good looking prospect. Archer was terrible this year. And the other three (fuld, guyer, chirinos) are all some kind of combination of not that special, old for their level, and who really cares
So in theory maybe they can trade one good prospect and a bundle of crap to Tampa again for something useful (upton and niemann for example).
I agree with much of what you say my friend. I don’t think Hendry got hosed in any way, but it’s going to take a few years for Archer to prove he can’t throw strikes.
But LeMahieu is not allowed to play in the big leagues. At least not in Chicago. I’m pretty sure Epstein knows this.
Brad, do you think one of the issues with Hendry, potentially due to ownership pressure, was that since they can/could afford a $130 mil payroll, they have no excuse but to try and contend each year, much like the Yankees, Red Sox, and I’d say now the Phils? When you decide to slash payroll to mid-market levels, it’s a culture shock that I’m not sure even the Cubbie faithful could take. Essentially, it’s a bit of a catch-22 for the big markets: You’re expected to win because we can afford the stars, so if you do you did your job, if not then keep throwing money at the problem? It’s easy to say they need to trash some ugly contracts, but is dropping their payroll to $75 mil something Ricketts wants to do?
Exactly – big market teams dont go into full scale rebuild mode. It doesnt happen. And it shouldnt happen
The team with the 2nd or 3rd highest average cost of going to a ballgame isnt going to trot out a lineup full of Brian LaHairs, Darwin Barneys, Wellington Castillos, and Tyler Colvins on opening day
Yes, and that’s a fair suggestion. I’m thinking in terms of long-term stability and building a dynasty of impervious rock, but they may not need such a drastic overhaul.
As you correctly noted above, the farm is NOT entirely depleted (though it is not the envy of the league, either). I assumed that because I’m not sure what the compensation package will be for the Epstein transaction — in other words, I assumed the worst (Brett Jackson gone, that is).
If the Red Sox do indeed want just cash, the Cubs could easily field a strong team in 2012 — maybe not a great team, but a near-.500 team.
If they slash payroll they might (and I didn’t address this in the article) be able to invest powerfully in Latin American academies and player development.
But yeah, I don’t mean to say (though I may appear to have) there’s only one way this will play out.
Theo: “Starlin, this is third base. Third base, this is Starlin.”
Yes, lets take a player whose best asset defensively is his range, and play him at a position where range is less important. Briliant
I think CF or LF may be his eventual destination.
He will remain at shortstop for a very long time
All the range numbers are there already. He increased his fielding % by 11 points this year. If he increases it another 10 or 11 points this year, he is in the running for a gold glove
Believe it or not, at this stage he is closer to being Omar Vizquel than being Gary Sheffield
I mean seriously…..left field?? Really?
Geez, you’re like a self-parody. What the hell does fielding percentage have to do with range?
q-
He’s saying the range is major league quality. Except he makes way too many errors. Hence the comment on fielding %.
I think the point is that he has range, and what’s holding him back from being a good fielder is his errors, but he’s improving that.
Yeah, seriously. He’s like Ian Desmond with a better bat.
…can’t limit a defender as athletic as him when he’s only 21 years old. People have been all over Lawrie in similar respects, when the guy had only made the switch to full time “non-catching defender” a couple of years ago. Give ‘em at least a few years…
He’ll be given one or two more years to mature at the position. Part of rebuilding quickly is gaining cheap WAR from improved defense; Castro does not contribute to that yet. His range would play nicely at 2nd base anyway. I could see Epstein plug in a defense first veteran like Scutaro if Castro doesn’t improve quickly.
Theo likes to throw money around, it will be interesting to see how he does with less payroll flexibility. I love the under the radar moves he makes more than the big money signings where he has a less than stellar track record. I wish him well though as a Chicagoan. He’s put himself in the middle of a giant mess.
“Theo likes to throw money around”
any GM who is allowed to, would love to throw money around.
As a Cubs fan, this is the best news I’ve ever gotten in October.
Why, in the love of god, do people keep promoting Rick Hahn as some baseball hero? The White Sox have a terrible scouting and developmental record. TERRIBLE. Why are we saying this guy does good work? HE DOES NOT. Where did this come from?
I will admit he helped re-sign some valuable vets to under-market contracts, but those would of happened anyway — Konerko and Buerle come to mind . Otherwise, WHY do people keep giving him props?
The White Sox scouting isn’t as bad as people make it out to be. The problem is Kenny has traded away a lot of our most promising prospects. Though I have noticed that he hasn’t traded away one notable prospect since the Dan Hudson trade. he Sox have been in prospect stockpiling mode since the beginning of the last offseason. Also, don’t forget guys like Alexie Ramirez, Dayan Viciedo, Chris Sale, Sergio Santos and even Gordon Beckham (ok, mostly his defense) are products of the White Sox scouting system. And those are just the guys on the major league roster.
Is Theo Epstein a HOFer? What constitutes a HOF front office/GM-type? If Epstein walked away today from baseball (rather than take over as Cubs GM), is he already a HOFer for turning the Red Sox into a World Series champion (times two)? Does he turn himself into a non-HOFer if he fails to turn around the Cubs pretty completely? Is his “legacy” dependent on his tenure with the Cubs? Tough to say what the benchmark is for front office types but Epstein clearly did a fabulous job in Boston until ownership got anxious/desperate and pressured him into making some incredibly poor decisions (principally, the John Lackey and Carl Crawford deals).
One of the toughest parts of a GM’s job, in my mind, is convincing ownership to do x or to not do x. When management fails to convince ownership that giving a pretty mediocre starting pitcher like Lackey $80+ mil is a horrible idea, or that giving a non-power hitting LF whose defense and baserunning skills were sure to decline in the near future like Crawford $140+ mil is an even worse idea, whose fault is that? Or did Epstein actually advocate for one or both deals? We’ll probably never know the answer to these sorts of questions, which makes it extremely difficult to assess a GM’s performance.
It’s easy for us to point to what Tampa Bay’s management team is able to accomplish under severe budget constraints as evidence of brilliance, but how would this same management team conduct itself if it had virtually unlimited resources, like Epstein had in Boston? Would this management team have fiercely advocated for letting Crawford walk or would it have stupidly re-signed him to this absurd contract? Would this management team have blown tens of millions of dollars on the likes of Lackey? How to assess a front office’s performance, in other words? A position player or pitcher can put up monster numbers, regardless of the context in which he is operating (i.e., the quality of his teammates, the quality of his front office, the dimensions of his home ballpark), but it seems extremely difficult to decontextualize a GM’s performance, that is, to ignore the resources that he does or does not have available or the level of pressure exerted by ownership to make this or that decision. The ideal ownership group will, of course, hire the smartest man in the room, give him unlimited financial resources, and allow him to do whatever the hell he wants, but I’m not sure such an ideal ownership group exists.
In any event, the state of the Chicago Cubs is truly vomit-inducing, so if Epstein can turn this franchise into a perennial 90+ game winner, that will be quite the accomplishment.
Well Tampa would have a stock of cheap, young players to come in and replace guys like Crawford or Lackey when they struggle. That’s why Epstein isn’t that good. When his scouting department head left, they no longer had those incredible young talents to balance out possible bad free agent moves, or didn’t have to make them at all.
Yes Tampa is better. Boston CAN do everything Tampa does (scout and develop like a mofo) AND also sign virtually any free agent they want. It’s not an either/or. It’s not like Boston is incapable of scouting and developing young players, they just don’t do it well anymore.
First Moves For Cub GM
[1] Forget everything you know about the average baseball fan.
[2] Hide your gun; there’s dark times ahead.
[3] Stock up on Southern Comfort.
[4] Sacrifice a live rooster, can’t hurt.
i would add a fifth
(5) Pick the office as far away from Crane Kenney as possible
Um, no team is going to hire Tango or MGL as assistant GMs. This is going to sound like I’m advocating the old school way when I’m not but, you do know there is more to being a GM than running regression analyses, right? For starters you probably have to use your real name…
The reason guys like that can’t be GMs is the same reason guys like Epstein can’t be (field) managers. Would they probably be great at one half of the job? Yeah. But there’s basically no way, in the real world, they could do the other half.
That whole first section just reads like, “Here is a List of Names of People Who I Think/Am Told Are Smart”. What do you really know about Kim Ng or Rick Hahn other than the fact that they are people who get “talked about.”
There’s really no insight to be had here. Pretty much anyone who reads the requisite baseball sites/blogs could have made this exact same post.
Sometimes a post is worthwhile because it starts a discussion. Like this one.
By the way, Bill James does not play a serious role in the Red Sox baseball operations. It was a token hire from the very beginning, more of a branding than anything. A lifetime achievement award, really. Now, I think MGL and Tango have a lot more to offer than James, but still the idea of them as GMs is comical.
dude . . . I’m not saying I don’t agree with you on some level, but do you really want to be an enlightened douchebag?
I agree with Tom. Why would a GM hire a “brand name” analyst when there is effectively a limitless supply of smart, cheap unbranded baseball analysts?
Pointing out that the Cards have had a 7 win player in 11 of the last 14 years is a little unfair, considering they’ve had Pujols in 11 of the last 14 years. Most teams don’t have an Albert Pujols equivalent, even if they have other elite players.
agreed. how many players have posted 7 WAR seasons in the last 10 years? very, very few.
Sign Albert Pujols for 10 years $300M?
That graph sure is a sin of inconsistency.
JFC, wishful thinking.
Based on his history, I’d be willing to bet bad money on Theo’s first moves being: 1) Resigning Soriano for 7/142 2) Resigning Zambrano for 5/82 3) Trading McNutt for Kendall, and 4) Introducing the word “merry-go-round” to his systems SS’s.
“Is Epstein a HOFer?” LMAO
I don’t think it’s out of the question that the Cubs could be back in contention in 2012, but it will require some major changes (as in not recognizing next year’s team).
- Zambrano to Fla is going to happen and will save some money
- Sign Fielder if less than ~6 years/$160M
- Ship Soriano out for anything, so long it saves money (or platoon him)
- Brett Jackson starts in one OF spot
- Trade Byrd and/or Soto, and prospects for a solid #2 or 3 starter or sign a free agent
- Resign Aramis for 2 years with a vesting option for a third year
almost all of those are almost certainly not going to happen
“The NL Central had two 90 win teams so it will take a lot for the Cubs to compete” not exactly what he said, but close. I totally disagree. The Crew is on a “one shot” mind set right now. Cards are super old, it was a miracle that they made it this far. Gonna be even older next year. Stros are about 4 years from competing and the Pirates will probably be below .500 again. The Reds have a great offense but their pitching is inconsistent.
The reality is, the Central is weak. 2 playoff teams, okay, but one sold the farm for this year and the other got incredibly lucky and relied heavily on Berkman having a bounce-back year.
Cubs can compete in 2013 if not 2012 if everything goes right.
Other than that I think Epstein is a bad move. It’s pretty much just a story. Epstein had an owner who was willing to spend and willing to think ahead and a loyal fanbase. Once his scouting head left, they weren’t churning out top guys anymore and instead making bad free agent signings.
I mean people act like it’s such a big deal that Epstein “broke the curse”. Just because it was their first title in 80-something years doesn’t mean his job was harder than say, Tampa Bay.
Epstein won with an extremely loyal fanbase, a determined owner, and a huge payroll. That’s the bottom line, I don’t care about the curse. That’s not real. Reality is he had a LOT going his way. Friedman has went to the playoffs with a tiny payroll, a new franchise, and with very little fan support (initially, TV ratings are up but attendance is still down).
So really, who is better? The guy who won with just about every advantage you can have, or the guy who won with just about every disadvantage? Cubs should have went after Friedman or Anthopoulos. I’d rather compensate the Jays for taking Anthopoulos’ extension than the Sox for Espstein.
His “scouting head” left after 09. The guys they drafted this year haven’t even played yet, and the guys they drafted in ’10 are just beginning their pro careers. Didn’t think this one through, did ya?
Not that I would expect someone who calls bringing in Theo Epstein a “bad move” to be capable of making a coherent argument, but still.
@Antonio: All good points, the thing is, he just took another job “with an extremely loyal fanbase, a determined owner, and a huge payroll.”
Yes, he has essentially the same resources as he did in Boston, I’m just saying that this isn’t the saving grace a lot of people are making it out to be. A lot of people could do the job as good as Theo. I shouldn’t call it a “bad move” that was more reactionary on my part because of how ridiculous some Cubs fans have been. They are pretty much going “THIS IS THE WIZARD THAT BROKE THE BAMBINO CURSE NOW HE CAN WORK HIS MAGIC ON US” and it’s bogus.
Why would either of those guys leave though? Freiedman is close to Sternberg and AA just started, and is from Canada to boot. I don’t think the Cubs could just “go get” those guys under any circumstance.
“Also I would strongly consider, slash, desperately pursue bringing in…”
Seriously, when is this site going to get a competent editor?
re: Antonio Bananas
Epstein’s “scouting head” left after 09. The guys they drafted this year haven’t even played yet, and the guys they drafted in ’10 are just beginning their pro careers. You’re talking out of your ass.
I remember you from previous threads, you’re just a Theo hater, you have no interest in an objective discussion, and the bullshit I just pointed out is Exhibit A.
I’m not a theo hater, I just don’t think he’s this amazing GM. He “broke the curse” but that didn’t mean anything to me. He won 2 world series rings with a high payroll.
Was that the only scouting head that left? I could have swore a previous one left in like ’05. Bottom line is Theo hasn’t had as many top prospects come up recently and has made some bad free agent moves.
No, the bottom line is you tried to make it sounds like the Red Sox drafted all these great players, then their “scouting head” (he has a name btw, Jason Mcleod) left and they sucked. Factually, it’s 100% wrong, and you obviously pulled it out of your ass. That’s the bottom line. Don’t back track now. And by the way, they still have a very good farm system, they just don’t have many blue chip guys close to the big leagues at this snapshot moment.
The fact that Theo is in Chicago right now is evidence that having a high payroll doesn’t guarantee success. Go talk to the Mets, also. 6 out of 9 years in the playoffs, two WS, averaged like 94 wins in the best division in baseball? Okay, maybe that’s not “amazing”, but again you’re back tracking, you said this was a BAD move for the Cubs. Explain why it’s a BAD move, and try to use a fact or two.
I would love a chance at the Asst. GM position.
As a hardcore Red Sox fan, I can only say to Cub fans be careful what you wish for. The Sox are stuck with a bunch of overpaid, underperforming players courtesy of Theo. However, I want nothing more for Cubbies fans than to feel the insane joy of finally winning it all. Good luck!
As Dave C. has pointed out in the past, there are literally thousands of smart, hardworking college grads who would be willing to work for peanuts and analyze data/perform sabermetric analyses/etc…..why pay MGL or Tango?
This same logic applies to the Cubs hire of Epstein….no reason to do this when you could find the next AA on the cheap (and without surrendering additional prospects or money).
The problem with this argument is that “could” is not “will”. Sure, Tom Ricketts and Crane Kenney *could* find the next AA on the cheap. There’s also a chance they pick some mediocre guy who’s a good interview, or who excels in one areas but is strongly deficient in some others. Cubs ownership is probably not competent to find a diamond in the rough. At least by selecting Epstein there’s a track record guaranteeing a minimum level of competence.
MGL, would end up calling everyone a-holes and piss off the whole organization. I think Tango would be a great hire though.
Antonio Bananas,
No, the bottom line is you tried to make it sounds like the Red Sox drafted all these great players, then their “scouting head” (he has a name btw, Jason Mcleod) left and they sucked. Factually, it’s 100% wrong, and you obviously pulled it out of your ass. That’s the bottom line. Don’t back track now. And by the way, they still have a very good farm system, they just don’t have many blue chip guys close to the big leagues at this snapshot moment.
The fact that Theo is in Chicago right now is evidence that having a high payroll doesn’t guarantee success. Go talk to the Mets, also. 6 out of 9 years in the playoffs, two WS, averaged like 94 wins in the best division in baseball? Okay, maybe that’s not “amazing”, but again you’re back tracking, you said this was a BAD move for the Cubs. Explain why it’s a BAD move, and try to use a fact or two.