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	<title>Comments on: 2010 Comeback Candidate: Mike Pelfrey</title>
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	<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/index.php/2010-comeback-candidate-mike-pelfrey/</link>
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		<title>By: Dan Budreika</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/index.php/2010-comeback-candidate-mike-pelfrey/#comment-7751</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Budreika</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 05:09:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/?p=5936#comment-7751</guid>
		<description>&quot;Am I wrong in saying that UZR needs a 3-year sample to mean something?&quot;

The common rule of thumb is that three years of UZR data helps you make make a more convicting conclusion. But things happen. Injuries decimated the Mets last year and this killed the teams offensive production (the only team in the MLB that hit BELOW 100 HRs last year as a team) and also affected the clubs defense among other things.

UZR is a great tool. But it&#039;s not the only one. Dewan&#039;s +/-, the fans scouting reports, scouting observations, etc. help paint the full picture of player&#039;s defensive abilities. I like UZR and it&#039;s a great tool and one of the better metrics we have here at Fangraphs. 

But it&#039;s not gospel. For example...UZR had Jacoby Ellsbury at -18.6 in CF last year and at 16.5 (in all three OF spots) in 2008. I&#039;ve seen Ellsbury play a lot and I just can&#039;t comprehend that UZR has him at -18.6 runs in CF. It makes no sense to me. Hopefully that data evens out over time because right now it&#039;s all over the place....

The Mets were a bad defensive team in 2009. UZR says it. Scouts will say it too. Either way expect a better defensive team in 2010 which will help out Mike Pelfrey and the clubs pitchers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Am I wrong in saying that UZR needs a 3-year sample to mean something?&#8221;</p>
<p>The common rule of thumb is that three years of UZR data helps you make make a more convicting conclusion. But things happen. Injuries decimated the Mets last year and this killed the teams offensive production (the only team in the MLB that hit BELOW 100 HRs last year as a team) and also affected the clubs defense among other things.</p>
<p>UZR is a great tool. But it&#8217;s not the only one. Dewan&#8217;s +/-, the fans scouting reports, scouting observations, etc. help paint the full picture of player&#8217;s defensive abilities. I like UZR and it&#8217;s a great tool and one of the better metrics we have here at Fangraphs. </p>
<p>But it&#8217;s not gospel. For example&#8230;UZR had Jacoby Ellsbury at -18.6 in CF last year and at 16.5 (in all three OF spots) in 2008. I&#8217;ve seen Ellsbury play a lot and I just can&#8217;t comprehend that UZR has him at -18.6 runs in CF. It makes no sense to me. Hopefully that data evens out over time because right now it&#8217;s all over the place&#8230;.</p>
<p>The Mets were a bad defensive team in 2009. UZR says it. Scouts will say it too. Either way expect a better defensive team in 2010 which will help out Mike Pelfrey and the clubs pitchers.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Budreika</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/index.php/2010-comeback-candidate-mike-pelfrey/#comment-7749</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Budreika</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 04:56:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/?p=5936#comment-7749</guid>
		<description>One thing to consider and that I overlooked is that if the Mets sign Bay to play LF he essentially replaces Gary Sheffield there who was also a poor outfielder according to UZR. So the defense doesn&#039;t really get much worse from 2009 to 2010...and remains the same in LF. 

I understand your reservations with Beltran and Reyes. But healthy years from them would certainly enhance the teams defense. It&#039;s likely that it happens.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One thing to consider and that I overlooked is that if the Mets sign Bay to play LF he essentially replaces Gary Sheffield there who was also a poor outfielder according to UZR. So the defense doesn&#8217;t really get much worse from 2009 to 2010&#8230;and remains the same in LF. </p>
<p>I understand your reservations with Beltran and Reyes. But healthy years from them would certainly enhance the teams defense. It&#8217;s likely that it happens.</p>
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		<title>By: Charlie Saponara</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/index.php/2010-comeback-candidate-mike-pelfrey/#comment-7726</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlie Saponara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 21:52:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/?p=5936#comment-7726</guid>
		<description>30-plus starts in 2008 and 2009 and a K/BB under 2 both seasons.  Pelfrey will be 26 in 2010, so there is room for improvement, yes, but he’s not exactly a young prospect anymore.  Plus we are talking in terms of fantasy baseball, which profiles Pelfrey as a guy you don’t need to draft in the mid-rounds or maybe even late-rounds.  There will always be pitchers who come from nowhere to make fantasy impacts and Pelfrey so far has not shown great strikeout ability, which lumps him in with the type of pitcher had off of waivers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>30-plus starts in 2008 and 2009 and a K/BB under 2 both seasons.  Pelfrey will be 26 in 2010, so there is room for improvement, yes, but he’s not exactly a young prospect anymore.  Plus we are talking in terms of fantasy baseball, which profiles Pelfrey as a guy you don’t need to draft in the mid-rounds or maybe even late-rounds.  There will always be pitchers who come from nowhere to make fantasy impacts and Pelfrey so far has not shown great strikeout ability, which lumps him in with the type of pitcher had off of waivers.</p>
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		<title>By: Charlie Saponara</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/index.php/2010-comeback-candidate-mike-pelfrey/#comment-7724</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlie Saponara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 21:32:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/?p=5936#comment-7724</guid>
		<description>On a grand scale there are a ton of factors that take course over a long season like injuries, decline, progression, trades, rookie call-ups, etc.  That makes it tough to determine ahead of time if a club will be good or bad defensively.  We can assume that having Jack Wilson at SS and Chone Figgins at 3B would make for a great defensive left side of the infield, but what if Wilson has to play through a minor injury and his defense slips because of it?  UZR is a nice tool to use, but not the end all of defensive grading.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On a grand scale there are a ton of factors that take course over a long season like injuries, decline, progression, trades, rookie call-ups, etc.  That makes it tough to determine ahead of time if a club will be good or bad defensively.  We can assume that having Jack Wilson at SS and Chone Figgins at 3B would make for a great defensive left side of the infield, but what if Wilson has to play through a minor injury and his defense slips because of it?  UZR is a nice tool to use, but not the end all of defensive grading.</p>
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		<title>By: R M</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/index.php/2010-comeback-candidate-mike-pelfrey/#comment-7722</link>
		<dc:creator>R M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 20:08:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/?p=5936#comment-7722</guid>
		<description>People always throw around UZR like it is The Truth on this website.  Am I wrong in saying that UZR needs a 3-year sample to mean something?  If this is true, how do we know that the Mets were really that terrible in 2009, or really that great in 2008?  Isn&#039;t it possible that the Mets are simply an average defensive team with all 9 starters healthy, and that the extreme variations are largely noise?  I don&#039;t know much about UZR beyond the fact that it needs large sample sizes, so maybe I am wrong, but I just don&#039;t see how a team could be so great one year, and suddenly incredibly terrible the next.  Even if you take out Beltran and Reyes, that doesn&#039;t account for the almost 70 run turnaround.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People always throw around UZR like it is The Truth on this website.  Am I wrong in saying that UZR needs a 3-year sample to mean something?  If this is true, how do we know that the Mets were really that terrible in 2009, or really that great in 2008?  Isn&#8217;t it possible that the Mets are simply an average defensive team with all 9 starters healthy, and that the extreme variations are largely noise?  I don&#8217;t know much about UZR beyond the fact that it needs large sample sizes, so maybe I am wrong, but I just don&#8217;t see how a team could be so great one year, and suddenly incredibly terrible the next.  Even if you take out Beltran and Reyes, that doesn&#8217;t account for the almost 70 run turnaround.</p>
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		<title>By: R M</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/index.php/2010-comeback-candidate-mike-pelfrey/#comment-7721</link>
		<dc:creator>R M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 20:04:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/?p=5936#comment-7721</guid>
		<description>It doesn&#039;t make sense to me to use a young major league player&#039;s major league career stats to predict future improvement.  Obviously you&#039;re not going to see any upside if you just look at stats like &quot;career best WHIP&quot; or &quot;career K/BB&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It doesn&#8217;t make sense to me to use a young major league player&#8217;s major league career stats to predict future improvement.  Obviously you&#8217;re not going to see any upside if you just look at stats like &#8220;career best WHIP&#8221; or &#8220;career K/BB&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Charlie Saponara</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/index.php/2010-comeback-candidate-mike-pelfrey/#comment-7715</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlie Saponara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 18:21:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/?p=5936#comment-7715</guid>
		<description>Just my two cents:

I’m just not sold on Pelfrey at all.  There is almost nothing in his peripherals that I like (I like his high groundball rate).  A career 1.52 K/BB rate that includes a meager 5.17 K/9 doesn’t give me much optimism for a vast improvement.  No matter what his sinker is doing, better or worse, hitters have made better contact on his pitches for three years running.  Other than the assumption of wins, which I try to avoid, Pelfrey doesn’t provide value in any other category really.  His career best WHIP of 1.36 is below average and it is unlikely that he’ll contribute much in the strikeout category.  

All that being said, sinker/groundball pitchers definitely have the ability to put together sub 4.00 ERA season’s out of the blue sometimes.  However, there is always a lot of risk involved in low strikeout guys and the reward isn’t as high as a pitcher who can contribute more K’s.

“He could be had towards the middle rounds and he would offer your team some intriguing upside”  

I won’t be taking Pelfrey in the middle rounds, no way no how, but I don’t think I’ll have to either.  His ADP at mockdraftcentral.com is 378, so if anything he’s a last round flier in my eyes.  Actually, I’d rather not even go there.  

Also, about the defense: There are some serious questions about Carlos Beltran’s ability to stay in center due to his knee problems.  Jose Reyes’ torn hamstring carries plenty of question marks as well.  Reports say that the Mets are going hard after Jason Bay.  If they sign Bay to play LF, the Mets defense will get significantly worse.  We’ll have to see what happens with the D.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just my two cents:</p>
<p>I’m just not sold on Pelfrey at all.  There is almost nothing in his peripherals that I like (I like his high groundball rate).  A career 1.52 K/BB rate that includes a meager 5.17 K/9 doesn’t give me much optimism for a vast improvement.  No matter what his sinker is doing, better or worse, hitters have made better contact on his pitches for three years running.  Other than the assumption of wins, which I try to avoid, Pelfrey doesn’t provide value in any other category really.  His career best WHIP of 1.36 is below average and it is unlikely that he’ll contribute much in the strikeout category.  </p>
<p>All that being said, sinker/groundball pitchers definitely have the ability to put together sub 4.00 ERA season’s out of the blue sometimes.  However, there is always a lot of risk involved in low strikeout guys and the reward isn’t as high as a pitcher who can contribute more K’s.</p>
<p>“He could be had towards the middle rounds and he would offer your team some intriguing upside”  </p>
<p>I won’t be taking Pelfrey in the middle rounds, no way no how, but I don’t think I’ll have to either.  His ADP at mockdraftcentral.com is 378, so if anything he’s a last round flier in my eyes.  Actually, I’d rather not even go there.  </p>
<p>Also, about the defense: There are some serious questions about Carlos Beltran’s ability to stay in center due to his knee problems.  Jose Reyes’ torn hamstring carries plenty of question marks as well.  Reports say that the Mets are going hard after Jason Bay.  If they sign Bay to play LF, the Mets defense will get significantly worse.  We’ll have to see what happens with the D.</p>
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		<title>By: KY</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/index.php/2010-comeback-candidate-mike-pelfrey/#comment-7714</link>
		<dc:creator>KY</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 18:18:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/?p=5936#comment-7714</guid>
		<description>Well I&#039;m still confused.

2007 (only 99 pitches): 7.8 Z
2008: 7.4 Z
2009: 6.5 Z

That&#039;s an inch LESS vertical this year.  Is it not?

I would also guess that the homers came on the sinker, thus the large change in run value.  He had a rough strand rate too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well I&#8217;m still confused.</p>
<p>2007 (only 99 pitches): 7.8 Z<br />
2008: 7.4 Z<br />
2009: 6.5 Z</p>
<p>That&#8217;s an inch LESS vertical this year.  Is it not?</p>
<p>I would also guess that the homers came on the sinker, thus the large change in run value.  He had a rough strand rate too.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Budreika</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/index.php/2010-comeback-candidate-mike-pelfrey/#comment-7706</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Budreika</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 13:02:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/?p=5936#comment-7706</guid>
		<description>And you would think this extra movement on his sinker would be of great benefit to him but hitters really got a hold of his pitches outside of the strike zone...it&#039;s extremely interesting. His defense really didn&#039;t help him out. A healthy Jose Reyes up the middle would definitely help him out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And you would think this extra movement on his sinker would be of great benefit to him but hitters really got a hold of his pitches outside of the strike zone&#8230;it&#8217;s extremely interesting. His defense really didn&#8217;t help him out. A healthy Jose Reyes up the middle would definitely help him out.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Budreika</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/index.php/2010-comeback-candidate-mike-pelfrey/#comment-7705</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Budreika</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 13:00:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/?p=5936#comment-7705</guid>
		<description>Good call. I interpreted that the wrong way at 4 AM on the pitch graphs. I made the correction and it makes the case of Mike Pelfrey that much more interesting. 2010 will be a huge year for him and educate us a lot about his pitch movement/values. I&#039;m still expecting him to bounce back due to his peripherals and some more help from his fielders. I can&#039;t wait to see if his sinker keeps sinking a bit more or if he attempts to go back to his pre 2009 form...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good call. I interpreted that the wrong way at 4 AM on the pitch graphs. I made the correction and it makes the case of Mike Pelfrey that much more interesting. 2010 will be a huge year for him and educate us a lot about his pitch movement/values. I&#8217;m still expecting him to bounce back due to his peripherals and some more help from his fielders. I can&#8217;t wait to see if his sinker keeps sinking a bit more or if he attempts to go back to his pre 2009 form&#8230;</p>
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