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	<title>Comments on: Hunter Pence&#8217;s Sliding Production</title>
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	<description>Daily fantasy baseball analysis and strategy</description>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/index.php/pences-production-takes-a-slide/#comment-157</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 01:30:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/?p=619#comment-157</guid>
		<description>I may be a bit biased as I am a big Astros fan and although I do keep up with stats and use several metrics in evaluating current and projected value, from a fan&#039;s perspective I believe Hunter will improve with the &#039;09 season. I know, typical from a fan wanting his player to perform. However, let me assure you this wasn&#039;t the case last June. (He looked lost)

In several interviews with Hunter he talks about the diet of sliders in the bigs versus the minors and realizes he has to adjust. He mentions he knows it will take time to adapt, but it will happen. Sean Berry (Hitting coach) mentioned about specific adjustments in Hunters mechanics around August and an improved approach at the plate. Now, I know this can mean anything (or nothing) but watching him at bat the last few months of the season there was an obvious difference. He took more pitches and ended up with more BB&#039;s fewer K&#039;s and more hard hit balls. His slg% sky rocketed in September and 1/2 his hits were for extra bases. He looks alot more confident at the plate, and has the type of mentality that leads me to beleive he is determined to adapt. Keep in mind Hunter has never really &quot;not hit&quot; he has always found a way and I believe the Big&#039;s will be his biggest test but one I&#039;d bet he can pass.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I may be a bit biased as I am a big Astros fan and although I do keep up with stats and use several metrics in evaluating current and projected value, from a fan&#8217;s perspective I believe Hunter will improve with the &#8217;09 season. I know, typical from a fan wanting his player to perform. However, let me assure you this wasn&#8217;t the case last June. (He looked lost)</p>
<p>In several interviews with Hunter he talks about the diet of sliders in the bigs versus the minors and realizes he has to adjust. He mentions he knows it will take time to adapt, but it will happen. Sean Berry (Hitting coach) mentioned about specific adjustments in Hunters mechanics around August and an improved approach at the plate. Now, I know this can mean anything (or nothing) but watching him at bat the last few months of the season there was an obvious difference. He took more pitches and ended up with more BB&#8217;s fewer K&#8217;s and more hard hit balls. His slg% sky rocketed in September and 1/2 his hits were for extra bases. He looks alot more confident at the plate, and has the type of mentality that leads me to beleive he is determined to adapt. Keep in mind Hunter has never really &#8220;not hit&#8221; he has always found a way and I believe the Big&#8217;s will be his biggest test but one I&#8217;d bet he can pass.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/index.php/pences-production-takes-a-slide/#comment-153</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Nov 2008 17:15:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/?p=619#comment-153</guid>
		<description>I understand the Marcel &quot;skewed average&quot; argument, but why does Bill James have him at .294-29-100?  I must admit my ignorance in the exact way Bill calculates his projections, but to ask an obscenely stupid question, doesn&#039;t he know these stats?  Shouldn&#039;t he have accounted for this in his calcs?  Or has Bill taken the next step, and he can now predict the future, seeing Pence adjust to laying off the slider?  

Seriously, the Bill James projection has me concerned that cutting Pence loose may be a mistake.  Any more reassurance out there that this is the right thing to do?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I understand the Marcel &#8220;skewed average&#8221; argument, but why does Bill James have him at .294-29-100?  I must admit my ignorance in the exact way Bill calculates his projections, but to ask an obscenely stupid question, doesn&#8217;t he know these stats?  Shouldn&#8217;t he have accounted for this in his calcs?  Or has Bill taken the next step, and he can now predict the future, seeing Pence adjust to laying off the slider?  </p>
<p>Seriously, the Bill James projection has me concerned that cutting Pence loose may be a mistake.  Any more reassurance out there that this is the right thing to do?</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Joura</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/index.php/pences-production-takes-a-slide/#comment-150</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Joura</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Nov 2008 12:52:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/?p=619#comment-150</guid>
		<description>BBref lists BABIP on splits and Pence had a .300 mark in the first half and a .301 average in the second half.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/bsplit.cgi?n1=pencehu01&amp;year=2008</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BBref lists BABIP on splits and Pence had a .300 mark in the first half and a .301 average in the second half.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/bsplit.cgi?n1=pencehu01&#038;year=2008" rel="nofollow">http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/bsplit.cgi?n1=pencehu01&#038;year=2008</a></p>
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		<title>By: David Golebiewski</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/index.php/pences-production-takes-a-slide/#comment-148</link>
		<dc:creator>David Golebiewski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 21:46:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/?p=619#comment-148</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think I&#039;d read too much into the Marcel batting average. Marcel is surprisingly accurate for a system that basically takes 3-year data and regresses it (with Pence, 2 years), but in Pence&#039;s case, his 2007 BA is kind of skewing things. His BA should have been in the .260 range in 2007, but the high BABIP pushed him all the way over .320. 

Say we weighted Pence&#039;s .269 average from 2008 as 60% of his projection, and his .322 average from 2007 as 40% of the projection, we&#039;d get an estimated BA of .290 on the nose. 

If we &quot;clean up&quot; a little bit and adjust his 2007 BA using the same weighting system...

.269 (.6) + .258 (.4) = .265

..you get an estimated BA of .265</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think I&#8217;d read too much into the Marcel batting average. Marcel is surprisingly accurate for a system that basically takes 3-year data and regresses it (with Pence, 2 years), but in Pence&#8217;s case, his 2007 BA is kind of skewing things. His BA should have been in the .260 range in 2007, but the high BABIP pushed him all the way over .320. </p>
<p>Say we weighted Pence&#8217;s .269 average from 2008 as 60% of his projection, and his .322 average from 2007 as 40% of the projection, we&#8217;d get an estimated BA of .290 on the nose. </p>
<p>If we &#8220;clean up&#8221; a little bit and adjust his 2007 BA using the same weighting system&#8230;</p>
<p>.269 (.6) + .258 (.4) = .265</p>
<p>..you get an estimated BA of .265</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/index.php/pences-production-takes-a-slide/#comment-147</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 21:10:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/?p=619#comment-147</guid>
		<description>Very lofty indeed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very lofty indeed.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/index.php/pences-production-takes-a-slide/#comment-146</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 19:01:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/?p=619#comment-146</guid>
		<description>Yes I guess I&#039;m arguing kind of a technicality.  I do think he needs to improve, but I think he is already in the process, not on a downward slide.  There are many ifs to his game....the extremely high ground ball rate and the miniscule LD%.  He was among the league leaders in infield hits, so his average probably should have been even lower than it was.  The second half is encouraging me, but I guess I won&#039;t put too much weight on it.  

On a different note, both Bill James and Marcel have him hitting .290.  With all the question marks surrounding him, don&#039;t you think those projections are pretty lofty?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes I guess I&#8217;m arguing kind of a technicality.  I do think he needs to improve, but I think he is already in the process, not on a downward slide.  There are many ifs to his game&#8230;.the extremely high ground ball rate and the miniscule LD%.  He was among the league leaders in infield hits, so his average probably should have been even lower than it was.  The second half is encouraging me, but I guess I won&#8217;t put too much weight on it.  </p>
<p>On a different note, both Bill James and Marcel have him hitting .290.  With all the question marks surrounding him, don&#8217;t you think those projections are pretty lofty?</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/index.php/pences-production-takes-a-slide/#comment-145</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 16:34:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/?p=619#comment-145</guid>
		<description>I think the article is pretty bang on.  I am not excited about Pence at all, I never was.  Scouts have always scoffed at his hitting mechanics, even while naming him a potential star.  I don&#039;t like the long term prospects of Pence, let alone for the coming season.  Too many K&#039;s, not enough BB&#039;s.  Nearly the same rates as a Ryan Braun without the power upside.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the article is pretty bang on.  I am not excited about Pence at all, I never was.  Scouts have always scoffed at his hitting mechanics, even while naming him a potential star.  I don&#8217;t like the long term prospects of Pence, let alone for the coming season.  Too many K&#8217;s, not enough BB&#8217;s.  Nearly the same rates as a Ryan Braun without the power upside.</p>
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		<title>By: David Golebiewski</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/index.php/pences-production-takes-a-slide/#comment-144</link>
		<dc:creator>David Golebiewski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 16:29:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/?p=619#comment-144</guid>
		<description>Jim,

I didn&#039;t say he showed zero improvement. I think it&#039;s plausible that second half improvements mean more for young players who still have development time remaining. But we also have to keep in mind what he did in the first half, and cannot throw out 382 PA of performance and just focus on the last 260 PA, concluding that this is his new standard of performance. 

The purpose of the article is certainly not to bury Pence, but simply to point out that there are some negative indicators that need to be improved upon. 

Using some of the great features on this site, we can break down the components that went into Pence&#039;s modest improvement in walk rate during the second half:

O-Swing%, July: 28%
O-Swing%, August: 39.5%
O-Swing%, Sept./Oct: 25.6%

Perhaps Sept./Oct. is a harbinger of things to come, but averaged together, those months look pretty similar to April-June:

April: 33.1%
May: 27.8%
June: 31.5%

If you weigh these numbers based on PA, you get:

April-June: 30.72%
July-Oct.: 31.35%

He did hit the ball with more authority, and perhaps that will continue. But I stand by the main point of the article: the plate discipline needs to improve.

Thanks for your reading and input!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim,</p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t say he showed zero improvement. I think it&#8217;s plausible that second half improvements mean more for young players who still have development time remaining. But we also have to keep in mind what he did in the first half, and cannot throw out 382 PA of performance and just focus on the last 260 PA, concluding that this is his new standard of performance. </p>
<p>The purpose of the article is certainly not to bury Pence, but simply to point out that there are some negative indicators that need to be improved upon. </p>
<p>Using some of the great features on this site, we can break down the components that went into Pence&#8217;s modest improvement in walk rate during the second half:</p>
<p>O-Swing%, July: 28%<br />
O-Swing%, August: 39.5%<br />
O-Swing%, Sept./Oct: 25.6%</p>
<p>Perhaps Sept./Oct. is a harbinger of things to come, but averaged together, those months look pretty similar to April-June:</p>
<p>April: 33.1%<br />
May: 27.8%<br />
June: 31.5%</p>
<p>If you weigh these numbers based on PA, you get:</p>
<p>April-June: 30.72%<br />
July-Oct.: 31.35%</p>
<p>He did hit the ball with more authority, and perhaps that will continue. But I stand by the main point of the article: the plate discipline needs to improve.</p>
<p>Thanks for your reading and input!</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/index.php/pences-production-takes-a-slide/#comment-143</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 15:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/?p=619#comment-143</guid>
		<description>That article is good and fine, but Pence is a young player who has the potential to show improvement.  I bet you anything that most of those 6,000 data points were established players who simply didn&#039;t bring torrid second halves into the next season, not young players with plenty of room for improvement.  Power surges in the second half are one thing, but BB % jumps, especially in a young hitter, are another.  Because we haven&#039;t yet established what the norm for Pence is, I don&#039;t know how you can say his second half was simply an abnormally good performance and that he actually hasn&#039;t improved at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That article is good and fine, but Pence is a young player who has the potential to show improvement.  I bet you anything that most of those 6,000 data points were established players who simply didn&#8217;t bring torrid second halves into the next season, not young players with plenty of room for improvement.  Power surges in the second half are one thing, but BB % jumps, especially in a young hitter, are another.  Because we haven&#8217;t yet established what the norm for Pence is, I don&#8217;t know how you can say his second half was simply an abnormally good performance and that he actually hasn&#8217;t improved at all.</p>
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		<title>By: David Golebiewski</title>
		<link>http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/index.php/pences-production-takes-a-slide/#comment-142</link>
		<dc:creator>David Golebiewski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 14:50:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/?p=619#comment-142</guid>
		<description>Jim,

Pence was considerably better in the second half, but we still have to evaluate his season as a whole. I suppose one could theorize that Pence made sweeping changes, but there are reasons to doubt the predictive value of big swings in performance between the first and second halves of a season:

http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/article/do_first_half_second_half_splits_mean_anything/

His first half was abnormally poor, his second half abnormally good. Combined, he posted a line rather similar to his adjusted 2007 performance. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim,</p>
<p>Pence was considerably better in the second half, but we still have to evaluate his season as a whole. I suppose one could theorize that Pence made sweeping changes, but there are reasons to doubt the predictive value of big swings in performance between the first and second halves of a season:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/article/do_first_half_second_half_splits_mean_anything/" rel="nofollow">http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/article/do_first_half_second_half_splits_mean_anything/</a></p>
<p>His first half was abnormally poor, his second half abnormally good. Combined, he posted a line rather similar to his adjusted 2007 performance.</p>
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