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  1. Boo hoo. I don’t think Rose has been treated unfairly.

    Comment by bowie — May 16, 2012 @ 11:12 am

  2. The poll is what did it for me. Outstanding!

    Comment by Max — May 16, 2012 @ 11:48 am

  3. I view Pete Rose as a litmus test for whether or not I should ever listen to someone’s opinion about MLB.

    There was a sign in every clubhouse when Pete Rose played and when Pete Rose managed that explicitly stated that anyone caught betting on MLB would be permanently banished from the game.

    Yet he bet on baseball, was caught, was banned just like the sign said he would be, and we’re supposed to feel sorry for him?

    And he’s not sorry he bet on baseball. He’s sorry that he got caught and punished for it.

    He still hasn’t even told the complete truth. He went from “I never bet on baseball” to “I never bet on my own team” to “I bet on my team every night and never bet on them to lose” even though there’s plenty of evidence and testimony that he wouldn’t bet on the Reds when Soto and Gullickson were starting.

    It’s astounding that anyone can support this shameless, selfish, serial liar.

    Comment by dirtbag — May 16, 2012 @ 11:50 am

  4. Well… umm… we’ll get on that… but we have priorities like expanding the playoffs to include 16 teams, Interleague play all the time, and making the All-Star game a decider for home field advantage for all 13 games of the World Series.

    Comment by Bud Selig — May 16, 2012 @ 11:52 am

  5. I chose “abstain” because “No” was not available.

    Comment by Yeager — May 16, 2012 @ 12:03 pm

  6. For me, it’s not even so much about poor ‘ol Pete. The Hall of Fame is supposed to be a shrine to baseball’s history and the greatest men to ever play the game. Pete Rose was one of the greatest men to ever play baseball, even though he was also an asshole. The Hall of Fame is only cheating itself and its visitors by refusing to acknowledge Rose’s incredible career.

    Comment by Anon21 — May 16, 2012 @ 12:05 pm

  7. Correct me if I’m wrong, but many of Rose’s accomplishments are acknowledged in the HoF, no? He just isn’t enshrined with a plaque and all. His 4,291st hit is showcased if memory serves. It’s not like he’s been erased from history, like some baseball Trotsky. I havent’ been to the Hall in a while, so my memory is a little hazy on that.

    Comment by bowie — May 16, 2012 @ 12:12 pm

  8. “Life’s too damn short to be negative. I hate negative people.”

    Simultaneously funny and sad.

    I support Pete Rose. I imagine how grateful he would be to be reinstated. I think that alone is worth reinstating him.

    Comment by Robert J. Baumann — May 16, 2012 @ 12:13 pm

  9. bowie, you’re right, he hasn’t been erased. But the guy with the most hits should have a plaque. The most hits. Ever! The plaque matters. Anon21 is right, Rose would be one of a number of major assholes to be in the hall. Ty Cobb was a huge racist, by all accounts, but somehow what Rose did was worse because there was a sign in the clubhouse? I don’t buy it.

    Comment by Navin Vaswani — May 16, 2012 @ 12:14 pm

  10. You answered a one-answer poll wrong, Yeager.

    Comment by Navin Vaswani — May 16, 2012 @ 12:15 pm

  11. Most of what Rose does today is simultaneously funny and sad.

    I don’t want him to die begging to be allowed into Cooperstown. You know?

    Comment by Navin Vaswani — May 16, 2012 @ 12:16 pm

  12. You clearly no longer respect my opinion on MLB, dirtbag, and that’s fair; that’s your right. But does this mean we can’t be friends?

    Comment by Navin Vaswani — May 16, 2012 @ 12:18 pm

  13. No, you’re right, he hasn’t been erased. But the “core” of the Hall, the players recognized for a career’s worth of outstanding play, should strive to be a complete accounting of the all-time greats in baseball, regardless of character. Once you get into all this “he was a bad, bad man” stuff, you have to confront some uncomfortable questions about why baseball and the Hall have the implicit hierarchy of offenses that they do. I’d wager Cobb is only the most open and notorious racist in the Hall, and also that if you looked you could find a fair number of domestic abusers in there.

    Comment by Anon21 — May 16, 2012 @ 12:34 pm

  14. I’d have more sympathy for the man if he wasn’t a complete and utter ass.
    I watched him signing at a memorabilia shop in Vegas just a couple of years ago. A fan who was there asked him about the Fosse incident, and even then, he was going on about how “Fosse should have got his fat ass out of my way.” The man ended a guy’s career over 1 run at an AS game.
    Guys who attempt to show remorse are the ones who receive redemption from the public. The ones who continue to lie and act like Rose does receive no such dignity.

    Comment by Guy — May 16, 2012 @ 12:48 pm

  15. This will surely keep me out of the NotGraphs Hall of Fame forever.

    Comment by Yeager — May 16, 2012 @ 1:18 pm

  16. The thing is, that while racism is worse to the public good then gambling, at a player level*, it has very little to do with the quality of the game played. Gambling on the other hand, throws the outcome of every contest into question, and at that point you don’t have a sport, you have something along the lines of WWE.

    *I think that you could easily argue that racism in the front office and in the commissioners office was even more detrimental to the MLB then gambling, so if you wanted to make a better comparison, I would point out that someone like Tom Yawkey hurts the credibility of the Hall of Fame more then Rose would. Someone like Ty Cobb, while by most accounts a pretty terrible guy, would have probably continued to play baseball even if the color barrier was broken during his career.

    Comment by JayT — May 16, 2012 @ 1:36 pm

  17. I’m not sure which side I’m on in this one but I do know that Rose maintained his innocence long after there was ample evidence to prove that he did what he was accused of. His admission of guilt seems more self serving than honest. He seems to be saying “if I say I gambled can I have another chance” rather than “I gambled on baseball (even games I could affect the outcome of), I lied about it all those years, I really would like a second chance and I hope someday you will feel I deserve one.”

    Comment by MikeS — May 16, 2012 @ 1:44 pm

  18. I met Cal Ripken Jr at a book signing last year and got to spend about 30 seconds with him. I asked one question: Should Pete Rose be in the Hall of Fame. Cal’s answer: “Without a doubt”

    But you go ahead and hold your little grudge.

    Comment by Pauly D — May 16, 2012 @ 1:52 pm

  19. I’m a big fan, Pauly D. Keep up the great work.

    Comment by Navin Vaswani — May 16, 2012 @ 1:55 pm

  20. Yeah, except that he *didn’t* end Fosse’s career:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Fosse

    Comment by Hans — May 16, 2012 @ 2:06 pm

  21. Different situation, obviously, Mike, but your comment reminded me of a piece I read about Madoff, and how he lied and lied and lied and lied and lied and lied and lied and lied and lied until one day the jig was up, and he’d fucked everything up beyond belief. And now he’s in jail for the rest of his life, and his son’s dead … and, well, you know what I mean. A certain denial kicks in. I agree with you: Rose has handled it wrong from day one, always coming off self-serving more than honest. Perhaps more than feel bad for him, I pity him.

    Comment by Navin Vaswani — May 16, 2012 @ 2:49 pm

  22. Rose deserves his punishment because the rules were clear. But the question becomes, does being “banned” from baseball mean being unable to play, manage, or assume some other active role with an MLB club? Or does it mean that, and that your previous, valid accomplishments in the game shouldn’t be enshrined in the HOF?

    I can understand why Rose would want to go back to managing. I can also understand why his ban would and probably should prevent this from happening. But the guy has all kinds of memorabilia in the HOF already. Keeping him out of the HOF as an officially inducted player seems silly, and really does just seem like certain folks holding a grudge and, as Rose implied, being unwilling to give a man a second chance that he probably deserves.

    I say, induct the man officially for his accomplishments. His mistakes are no worse than those of so many guys with plaques at Cooperstown. The HOF is filled with raving racists, alcoholics, violent husbands, drug users (both of the recreational and performance enhancing variety), amongst undoubtedly other gamblers that just never got caught.

    Comment by Nathan — May 16, 2012 @ 3:00 pm

  23. Just to be clear, I realize that the writers and the VC both instituted rules that say banned players are not eligible. My point is, is that really how it should be? I think not.

    Comment by Nathan — May 16, 2012 @ 3:11 pm

  24. I don’t know how relevant it is to the discussion but I can’t help but think of the aspersions that were cast upon the stately A. Bartlett Giamatti over the years by Pete Rose. Only now, long after A. Bartlett Giamatti has been dead and Pete Rose fessed up to everything, do we know that he was right all along. Small comfort that was to Mr. Giamatti after the vitriol Pete’s supporters aimed at him in life.

    Comment by Yeager — May 16, 2012 @ 4:56 pm

  25. Don’t forget Mr. Giamatti died a mere 8 days after rendering his decision as well.

    Comment by Yeager — May 16, 2012 @ 4:57 pm

  26. Dude, you just linked to a Wikipedia article that, when I went to read the source, links to an interview with Fosse claiming the injury pretty much ended his career. While I know he continued to play after the collision, it did end any promise he had in his career. He was pretty much a warm body after that play.
    Here’s the article, if you’re interested:
    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/1999/07/10/SP51494.DTL

    Comment by stran103 — May 16, 2012 @ 5:37 pm

  27. It’s definitely an interesting discussion.
    However, at this point, I’m curious if he would even receive enough votes to get in to the hall.

    Comment by stran103 — May 16, 2012 @ 5:39 pm

  28. Boy, when you put it that way…Rose is lucky he just screwed up baseball.

    Comment by MikeS — May 16, 2012 @ 9:26 pm

  29. pPA

    Comment by nu billy baroooo?! — May 17, 2012 @ 1:22 am

  30. I’m a guy just looking for a second chance. Other people get second chances. Alcoholics, drug addicts, spouse-beaters. Not gamblers, though.

    Irrelevant. I think that gambling should be legal, but baseball should severely punish it among players. I think that wife-beating should be illegal, but the proper place to punish it isn’t baseball.

    Gambling on baseball is a crime against baseball and baseball only.

    I think that Pete Rose is appropriately punished by baseball for exactly the same reason that I *don’t* think that Congress or the Feds should care about performance enhancing drugs. And I don’t think I care if PEDs are allowed in general, either, so long as players follow the same rules.

    Comment by John Thacker — May 19, 2012 @ 1:52 am

  31. I don’t either. That’s why I hope he stops begging.

    Comment by John Thacker — May 19, 2012 @ 1:53 am

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