Yay Jason!

Jason from IIATMS hits the big time:

Jason Rosenberg was heading home and listening to satellite radio when he heard that Manny Ramirez was fourth among National League outfielders in initial All-Star voting. By the end of the night, a new Web site was born: Vote for Manny.

“I said it would be funny if Manny got elected, because he’s coming off a suspension on July 3 and the All-Star game is a week later, so they don’t even have that sort of built-in protection,” the 39-year-old from suburban Ardsley said Wednesday. “So I got home, and just quickly threw a Web site together” . . .

. . . Rosenberg is a Yankees fan who works in finance and has a regular blog devoted to baseball athttp://www.itsaboutthemoney.blogspot.com, which he started more than a year ago. He disapproves of the 2003 rule change pushed through by commissioner Bud Selig that gives the All-Star winner homefield advantage in the World Series.

“I’m not a Bud basher,” he said. “I don’t go out of my way to criticize everything he does. I think he’s done some amazing things, the wild card and all sorts of other things.”

He intends to keep the Manny Web site up and running through the All-Star game.

Remember us little guys when you’re rich and famous, Jason.

UPDATE: Jason is going to be interviewed on Westwood One radio tonight too. All hail your omnipresent IIATMS overlord.


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Sean
Guest
Sean

This is an issue that doesn’t just stop with Manny. Look at how many Brewers are in the top two spots at their positions. Democracy is a great thing until it gets in the wrong hands. Fortunately, we have you, so champion our cause!

Aaron Moreno
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Aaron Moreno

Are we saying that Milwaukee constitutes the wrong hands?

Ben
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Ben

Yes that’s what we are saying.

Bill
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Bill

Wow, that’s fantastic. Go Jason! smile

Pete Toms
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Pete Toms

Regrettably Jason’s stunning good looks are not visible over radio. (unless his Facebook photos are fradulent)

A hearty mozel tov to Jason.

David
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David
Certainly I wish everybody rewards for hard work and recognition for good ideas, including this fellow. However, I do want to quickly nit-pick when he commended Selig for creating the wild-card.  Bud Selig deserves ZERO credit for creating the wild card.  All three other major sports had it by the time that MLB instituted it in 1995.  Crediting Selig with creating the wild card would be like crediting me for creating plumbing if I install a kitchen sink at my house.  I didn’t create a damn thing, I just saw that other people had done something that worked, and I… Read more »
Jack Marshall
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Jack Marshall
Craig, as you can see from other comments here,“Yay Jason” was widely interpreted as approval, and there was certainly nothing in your post to suggest otherwise. I assumed there was an element of protest in the stunt, just as the clods at “VotefortheWorst” claim to be protesting American Idol with their efforts to louse up what for a lot of Americans is a competition they enjoy, and for the singers is quite literally a life-changing opportunity. So I am supposed to excuse an excercise by people who don’t give a damn about an activity, designed to spoil it for the… Read more »
Craig Calcaterra
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Craig Calcaterra
“Who is Jason Rosenberg to decide that all these people should be disappointed, annoyed or harmed so he can make a statement, flex his on-line muscles, feel important, attract more people to his blog, and get media gigs?” Jack, I’d suggest that that exact statement could be turned around on a person who has made it his business to tell us that we should all be dissappointed, annoyed, and outraged about the morals and ethics of the steroid era.  Put differently, he’s one man with an opinon and he has every right to voice it. People can listen to him… Read more »
Jack Marshall
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Jack Marshall

It crosses no line at all. Surely you comprehend the difference between words and conduct? Jason’s welcome to his opinions. He’s not welcome to screw up other people’s enjoyment for his own purposes, and when he does, he should be called on it. Actively promoting and facilitating obnoxious and chaotic conduct goes far beyond stating opinions.

Jason @ IIATMS
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Jason @ IIATMS
Jack, I am no one. Just like you.  I had a point of view, an opinion, a thought to share.  I used the power of the internet plus a bit of initiative to share those things.  Everyone has a right to agree or disagree with those things and I welcome all of it.  I’ve been complimented and bashed.  Self-serving?  No, it’s just fun.  Fun as hell.  Suddenly I, an absolute no one, am being asked for interviews on national radio broadcasts, newpapers, the freakin’ Associated Press?  Who am I?  No one.  No one but someone with an idea, a thought,… Read more »
David
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David
Jack: What was being championed here wasn’t the actual content or message of the blog, but rather that the writer achieved some celebrity from it.  I agree with most of what you wrote (although I can’t really know that the writer is a jerk), but I can’t believe that you would actually be surprised at the celebrity culture and the satirizing of pop culture institutions (like MLB or American Idol).  I mean….this is the clearly way things are and probably the way they will be for a long time, and it’s disingenuous to act surprised, in my opinion.  If you… Read more »
Craig Calcaterra
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Craig Calcaterra
I’m not buying that distinction, Jack.  If anyone should understand that words matter, it’s a lawyer, and I find it dubious at best that you expect no action to be taken as a result of your words.  You want people to shun certain players and certain writers based on their views of PEDs in baseball. You want them to vote their ethics (or your ethics) with their pocketbooks.  If you don’t, you’ve wasted an obviously large amount of effort in what can only be described as persuasive writing and advocacy.   But even if I did buy your words/conduct distinction,… Read more »
Ralph
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Ralph

Jack,

In my estimation, Jason’s not “screw(ing) up other people’s enjoyment for his own purposes”.  He’s merely highlighting and exploiting flaw in the current MLB rules and ASG voting.  By pointing this out and promoting it, hopefully there will be a change.

Settle down and unbunch your panties.

David
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David
Ralph, The blog is, by design “screwing up” the All-Star game.  That’s it’s sole purpose.  So I don’t know why you had to put that in sneering quotes. Really, though, I don’t think that there’s anything at all wrong with Manny being in the game (although there’s a LOT wrong with the media surrounding it).  Manny’s obviously one of the greatest hitters of all time, and a very popular player.  Yes, he’s out for 50 games this year, but I’m sure there’ve been lots of times when injured players got in, and there’ve definitely been times when players got in… Read more »
Ralph
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Ralph

No David, the blog isn’t screwing up the ASG.  The blog is inanimate, but it’s putting Jason’s views out there for people to read.  Jason has every right to express his views and opinions and I know that you wouldn’t disagree with me on this.  Whether people agree with and follow his opinions is on them, not him.

Quoting what Jack said isn’t “sneering”, it’s being factually accurate.

Jason @ IIATMS
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Jason @ IIATMS

David, you’re flat out getting it backwards:

“The blog is, by design “screwing up” the All-Star game.  That’s it’s sole purpose.”

No.  The point is to FIX the ASG by highlighting the inherent flaws, as I see them.

* The fact that a player coming off a PED suspension can be selected

* The fact that the selection process is built for an exhibition but the game counts for something

Jack Marshall
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Jack Marshall
Yes, I believe (and in fact know) that the web has generated many people who delight in using its power to cause problems for others. A website like this one, like “Votefortheworst,” attracts these people, galvanizes them and serves as a catalyst for destructive conduct. I think tapping into that is irresponsible.  To take a much more serious example, an anti-abortion website that opines that abortion is murder is offering an opinion, but one that puts the photos and addresses of abortion clinic doctors up with an exhortation to “stop the murderers” is engaging in conduct. I may opine about… Read more »
MJ
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MJ

Congrats Jason, your site is getting a shout out on espn.com via Buster Olney

http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4211466&name=olney_buster

Jack Marshall
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Jack Marshall
Yay Jason? I don’t get this at all. This fool thinks it will be “funny’ to deface the All-Star Game with Manny Ramirez, who not only won’t deserve it on the basis of his production to that point, but will also embarrass baseball and keep a deserving, non-cheating star off the team.People like Jason simply enjoy causing discomfort and chaos, spreading their cynicism and taking pleasure at robbing others of their own fun and passions. He is the same breed as the creators of computer viruses,the same anti-social instincts as the people who try to screw up on-line polls because… Read more »
The Common Man
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The Common Man
“the web has generated many people who delight in using its power to cause problems for others. A website like this one…attracts these people, galvanizes them and serves as a catalyst for destructive conduct. I think tapping into that is irresponsible.” Puh-lease, Jack.  Nice hystrionics.  The All Star Game, for the past 70 years, has been the third most important and culturally relevant day in July (the first is obvious, and the second is my birthday, though that’s only been important for the last few decades).  To suggest that voting in Manny will somehow be a destructive act is rididulous. … Read more »
Jack Marshall
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Jack Marshall
Ah, yes, the old “it’s all trivial anyway, so why get upset about it?” argument. As Bill James has correctly pointed out, Americans spend more time thinking and following baseball than they do cancer research. Ok, this isn’t nuclear proliferation or mass unemployment. It’s setting out to annoy people, rewarding a player who does not deserve to be rewarded (and don’t think Manny will detect the irony intended, and causing a distraction from what used to be a fun summer night of just baseball. That matters. The rule loophole isn’t a problem if nobody votes for suspended players, you know—-making… Read more »
The Common Man
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The Common Man
“Making something occur that probably wouldn’t, to foce a change in a rule to prohibit the unlikely occurrance is a mighty weak reason to cause trouble.  If one person’s enjoyment of the game is diminished as a result, that’s one person too many.” Not likely to occur?  Manny was in 4th place already, man.  There’s a decent chance he was going to be elected without Jason’s help. And what about all of Manny’s legitimate fans, Jack?  Aren’t they entitled to their enjoyment too?  And won’t theirs be significantly more diminished than yours?  Anyway, I’m not saying the game is trivial… Read more »
Jeff
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Jeff
Jack, You are making far too big a deal out of the All-Star game.  It is a glorified exhibition.  Yes there is a rich history to it, but the game has ceased to be relevant for many years.  Think back about how many games have starred players that we now know were cheating.  Think about how people were HORRIFIED when Pete Rose ruined Ray Fosse’s career in a friggin All-Star Game? Fans vote for the players.  This is the fundamental flaw in the All-Star Game.  What is the difference between a fan voting for Manny because it is funny and… Read more »
Killeverything
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Killeverything

I think the guy’s a jackass.

Just as Jack Marshall said. The PED issue isn’t a big enough black eye for baseball. Let’s have one of the “caught” superstars play in the All-Star game too. “Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk.”

The whole situation disgusts me. It’s arbitrary too, Manny refuses to play in the ASG anyway, and has for some time. Way to go Jason.

Jack Marshall
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Jack Marshall
Ok. I think it’s outrageous that that Roland Burris isn’t being run out of the Senate, given that he has now been proven to be a influence-peddling opportunist who perjured himself in his testimony before Congress. To vividly illustrate this folly, I use my immense influence to promote Burris for the Presidency….and he wins (maybe because he ends up running against Newt Gingrich). Now his success sends the message that bribery and dishonesty works (well, it often does, but that’s a different issue)and the Presidency becomes a travesty (which it has been before—-maybe this isn’t such a good example..) But… Read more »
Sara K
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Sara K
Is it ethically sound to devote a website to a popular hometown player whose production is nowhere near league elite? Aren’t they messing with the integrity of the contest? And what is “atrocious” and “warped” about wanting to protest the rules under which the ASG is currently operating? If the game is supposed to count, then it is absolutely ridiculous for fans to control the voting. You can dislike Jason’s methods all you want, but at the same time, offer up an alternative method for generating exposure for the cause of changing the flawed rule.  Never mind – there really… Read more »
Jeff
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Jeff

The Presidency and the All-Star game are not even close to being comparable.  One is the leader of the free world, the other is an exhibition where men play a child’s game in exchange for millions of dollars.  It is supposed to be a distraction from real and/or everyday life.  And as Sara just said, if the All-Star game really matters, then fans shouldn’t be involved in the process to begin with!

And all of this is the point of Jayson’s website/quest!

The Common Man
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The Common Man
Indeed, Jack, and if All Stars had any responsibilities beyond showing up for the game and playing a few innings of baseball, perhaps your analogy would make a lot of sense.  Instead, it is absurd. We don’t live in a black and white world where every philosophy we hold must be pure and extended to its logical conclusion.  Rather, there are shades of grey and “the right thing” can depend on the context of the situation. Protests are designed to inconvenience and upset people so that flaws in a system can be rectified.  You know, I bet a bunch of… Read more »
Jack Marshall
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Jack Marshall
[Although it’s beside the point, I think the fans do a decent job more often than not. If they want to vote a guaranteed Hall of Famer or the previous season’s MVP into the line-up instead of some unknown having a great first half, that’s a rational decision.] I’ll buy the protest argument, as long as the protester, like Rosa Parks, or the war protesters who create traffic jams here in DC and then go to jail, suffers for his goal. But sitting home at your computer promoting a result you think is “funny,” while making bystanders, fans and others… Read more »
Kevin S.
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Kevin S.

You guys might want to try actually reading Jason’s blog post about this before you condemn him for it.  Then again, doing so will make you both realize how much of a tool you each are, so maybe you shouldn’t if you’re faint of heart.

Sara K
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Sara K

Every year, there are at least five ASG selections that make me want to vomit.  Of course, that’s because they were selected in a popularity contest that has nothing to do with selecting the most deserving players. Boy, I wish someone would do something about that wacky voting system!

Craig Calcaterra
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Craig Calcaterra
Jack and Kill, Go read Jason’s latest post at IIATMS (link in the blogroll to the lower left on this page if you can’t find it). His reason for doing this is as a protest—albeit an unconventional one—of Bud Selig and baseball’s failure to institute a Shawne Merriman rule that would have prevented Manny from even being eligible for the All-Star Game in the first place, which he believes should be the case.  It is his hope that Manny winning the vote would place baseball in an awkward position that would highlight and shame it for its failure to have… Read more »
The Common Man
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The Common Man
“sitting home at your computer promoting a result you think is “funny,” while making bystanders, fans and others who just want to see a good All-Star game…isn’t exactly what Thoreau had in mind.” This is true, but Thoreau didn’t have the internet in the 19th century, so his protest options were limited. It was tough to protest from your living room.  And we don’t know much about the consequences of Jason’s quest.  Sure, he’s getting media exposure, but with that exposure can come ugly and nasty attacks.  I wouldn’t want to see his inbox right now.  Now, that’s not a… Read more »
Jack Marshall
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Jack Marshall
Retroactive revulsion! Interesting concept! But I don’t buy it. Activities are not generally retroactively sullied by the subsequent conduct of a participant. Sure: it’s harder to laugh at O.J. in “The Naked Gun” now, but there was nothing wrong with laughing then. I especially like the idea that the All-Star Game is diminished by who MIGHT have been voted to it if there was one when he played. Would Joe Jackson have been elected if he could have been on the ballot due to a rule loophole about banned players in 1920? I doubt it…but I guess Jason would have… Read more »
Sara K
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Sara K

I see you have zoomed in on the part of TCM’s reply that was most germane to the discussion at hand….

My Pet Goat
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My Pet Goat

There’s nothing wrong with democracy or the hands of the people.  What’s wrong is a system that rewards ballot stuffing… and two hot months…

Jason @ IIATMS
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Jason @ IIATMS
Thanks Craig and Kevin and others.  I don’t mind the vitriol; I’ve gotten plenty of it.  It’s been outweighed by the good words, support and laughs I have heard. I never, EVER, anticipated the legs this thing would have.  For those of you who took the time to read and got it, thank you.  Sincerely.  You have no idea how much I appreciate it. There are always people who will disagree with something and I’m OK with that; it’s just like the voting.  Everyone’s got a voice and a right to use it.  I’d like the criticisms to be a… Read more »
The Common Man
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The Common Man

OK, you want a more germane example for our conversation, Jack?  In 2006, Tony LaRussa’s Cardinals won the World Series.  In Spring Training of 2007, LaRussa was arrested for and pled guilty for DUI.  That summer he managed the All Star Game.  Discuss.

Sara K
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Sara K

Stop that, TCM!  I’m still waiting for him to explain how “legit” fanboy sites are any more ethical than the MannyBlog, and if you keep teasing, we’ll never get there.

Jack Marshall
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Jack Marshall
Not worth discussing, is it? DUI is irresponsible, but one DUI doesn’t tell me anything about someone’s character. What does it tell you? Maybe he had one beer too many: what was his BAL? His crime isn’t baseball related; it wouldn’t get a lawyer disbarred or even disciplined (Tony’s a lawyer too, remember.) Repeat DUI’s are another matter. “Anybody can make a mistake” is absurd when applied to a player on a steroid cycle (one mistake doesn’t encompass months of specific acts and decisions)but it is absolutely applicable to many DUI cases. Bottom line: I don’t think LaRussa’s DUI reflects… Read more »
Jack Marshall
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Jack Marshall
OK, Sara: If some idiot wants to set up a fan blog because he loves a certain player and wants him to make the All Star team because it will be an honor to his favorite and a validation for him, there’s nothing wrong with that. When I was 13, I would have done that for Eddie Bressoud (who finally DID make the team, in 1964, thank God.) Surely you can see the ethical difference between that and the person who wants to promote a player’s candidacy because it will embarrass the sport? It’s not just results that matter; motive… Read more »
The Common Man
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The Common Man
First, I’m sorry Sara.  I didn’t mean to spoil the fun. Meanwhile, at the Hall of Justice…  Tony’s DUI tells me he executed poor judgement while intoxicated.  And sure, he didn’t hurt anyone.  But he could have.  Tony was found asleep at a stoplight.  What if he had rolled through?  What if he had fallen asleep while in motion and hit someone?  But that’s beside the point, I’m not trying to play the moral superiority game with you.  It’s not a contest of who’s worse, LaRussa or Manny.  It’s an acknowledgement that LaRussa was arrested for committing a crime, pled… Read more »
Jack Marshall
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Jack Marshall
The more I read the so-called defenses of Jason’s site (and I am absolutely sure he didn’t give the ethical implications a moment’s thought, which is normal), the more I’m convinced that it’s not defensible, because you guys are tying yourselves up in knots. Obviously an “Elect Milledge” campaign has no weight, because it is a joke. A website to promote anorexia is unethical, because there are vulnerable young girls who will read it, follow it, and it has a good chance of making them sick. A website advocating using squirrels as toilet tissue to save the environment is just… Read more »
Craig Calcaterra
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Craig Calcaterra
Jack—my defense of Jason is not solely based on the fact that he’s a friend. I’ll also throw in with (a) this is rather amusing; and (b) this is a picnic that could use a skunk or two. It strikes me, though, that you have a burden you haven’t carried yourself, and that’s establishing that Manny’s presence at the All-Star game would in any way detract from anything approaching a significant number of people’s enjoyment of the game.  You assume it in all of your attacks on Jason’s efforts, but it’s by no means apparent (as others have noted, a… Read more »
Jack Marshall
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Jack Marshall
Jason has been pretty clear about his motives, I’d say. I have no problem with his primary objective at all. His strategic objective…marring the All-Star game as a means to get baseball’s attention, electing a player, not because he is deserving but because he isn’t, is what’s wrong. Parker and Gooden’s substance abuse and legal problems only hurt their performance and careers—-I have never said that problems like this should make a player ineligible as an All-Star. I have come to believe that Perry’s use of the spitball should have gotten him suspended or bounced…for whatever reason (nostalgia, novelty), Gaylord’s… Read more »
Jack Marshall
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Jack Marshall
I’m somewhat stunned you feel this way, frankly. Sure, labeling something doesn’t make it so. Not labeling doesn’t make it less so,either, but it sure makes it harder to identify what it is. You will be relieved to know that I won’t rehash the steroid arguments. But I am confident that a solid majority (and if not, a rational minority) of the public believes that cheating is wrong, breaking the law is wrong, using banned substances to acquire multi-million dollar contracts is wrong, lying is wrong, and a player recently caught at all of the above is no All-Star. That… Read more »
Kevin S.
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Kevin S.

That’s funny, I always assumed that at the very least, a rational minority would understand that baseball accolades aren’t about morality, and that the ASG isn’t nearly as important as douche bag Selig would like to pretend it is.

Craig Calcaterra
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Craig Calcaterra
Sure, it’s wrong. And baseball adopted some rules and penalties for it. Those rules and penalties don’t include and exclusion from All-Star eligibility, however, so a vote for Manny is not, even according to Major League Baseball—which itself purports to care very deeply about steroids—illegitimate.  If you nonetheless believe a vote for Manny is illegitamate, then your faith and love in the All-Star game should already be betrayed by his very presence on the ballot, rendering your arguments against Jason’s efforts meaningless.  And let me alleve your feelings of tragedy: I too think steroids are harmful and destructive and should… Read more »
Jack Marshall
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Jack Marshall

Thanks for the clarification. My sense of tragedy is much reduced.

It doesn’t surprise me that baseball never considered a policy for steroid-suspended players. You may recall a somewhat related flap over Kenny Rogers when he was conceivably All-Star worthy while serving a suspension for attacking a photographer. Baseball, at least under Bud, never fixes anything until it blows up. Indeed, this is Jason’s rationale, no?

You do know better than to cite the ballot as proof of anything : how many years have we heard the explanation about how long in advance they are printed?

Craig Calcaterra
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Craig Calcaterra

I agree that is Jason’s point.

As for the ballots, I’d guess that online votes—the kind he’s encouraging with the embedded link on his site—account for many times more than the paper ballots from ballparks and supermarkets or wherever. They certainly could have changed those.

Jack Marshall
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Jack Marshall

Agree, certainly. You’d have to assume, however, given the sport’s track record, that its failure to do anything was just the usual passive “maybe nobody will notice” MO, with a “we can’t have one ballot on line and a different one handed out in the stands!” excuse built in.

Kevin S.
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Kevin S.
180%?  So caught up in your own self-righteousness, you’re conflating two cliches.  Nice. How can you possibly be blind to the fact that baseball *refuses* to act unless it’s hand is forced?  Bud won’t do anything unless sufficiently embarrassed.  Jason’s doing his small part to force that embarrassment.  Months before Vote For Manny, there was Vote for Milledge.  Was a campaign to elect somebody demoted to AAA a week into the season as a method of highlighting the ridiculousness of the ballot construction any more reprehensible to you?  Or because Milledge just sucked, as opposed to cheating, is it OK… Read more »
Marc
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Marc
Just an outsider’s point of view after reading all 3 pages of these comments: 1.) I hate Manny. Always have. Steroids have nothing to do with it. Being a Yankee fan and a baseball fan are that reason. And yes, I laughed my ass off the day he was busted. 2.) I support Jason’s blog for the reasons he intended, which have been restated here many times so no need to respond. 3.) Although Jason requested to keep the personal attacvks out of the debate, I disagree to this extent:  Jack, you are a douchebag.  Anyway you cut it.  Cut… Read more »
Craig Calcaterra
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Craig Calcaterra

Marc—as much as I’d like to thank you for the kind words, I have to be fair here and condemn the personal attacks and name calling and stuff.  Maybe we can adopt the umpire-player argument rule: you can call an argument douchebaggy, but let’s not call the person making the argument a douchebag. 

Above all else, let’s all do our best to keep things civil.

Thanks, all.

Jack Marshall
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Jack Marshall
Raising an interesting ethical question, how do you respond civilly to a comment like that? I can’t really quibble that the person who makes a douchebaggy argument isn’t probably a douchebag—-what exactly IS a douchebaggy argument? Anyway, Marc, for the record, I have a regularly updated ethics website, it does quite well, thanks; it has been “called out” by MSNBC, CNN, PBS, NPR, Fox, “O” Magazine and lots of local stations and papers, not that that makes my opinion better (or worse) than yours. And I’m sure I’m wrong quite often. My objective is to get people to at least… Read more »
Marc
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Marc
Actually, I never used the term, douchebaggy. That was Craig. For the record, I just called you a douchebag.  Well, I also called you a douche. And a hippie, though that may or may not be an insult.  Called you an old man as well, but same rules to hippie may apply, plus that’s a relative term.  However, as requested I will refrain from any more personal attacks. Your objective is to get people to think about ethical implications.  Fine. I think Jason is doing the same thing, which is to get MLB to consider the implications of Manny getting… Read more »
Jack Marshall
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Jack Marshall

Fair enough.
But I thought only old hippies fantasized about Peter Gammons.

Marc
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Marc

On no. Gammons is DREAMY!  I could get lost in those jowels for a week.

Jason @ IIATMS
Guest
Jason @ IIATMS

and this concludes the bickering and yelling segment of the show.

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