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1. 

   JoeR43
   Member

   Okay, as a Red Sox fan, I may be a bit biased but...

   can someone explain to me why Curt Schilling is a "borderline" Hall of Famer?

   As fangraphs users, most of us love the K/BB stat to evaluate pitchers. He's 2nd of all time in it. The only guy ahead of him is Tommy Bond.

   In plain ole strikeouts, he's 15th, and 15th in K/9 (better than Clemens)

   ERA+? 127.

   And I know it's overrated and SSS-tastic, but it matters to voters, so: postseason, 133 1/3 IP, 4.8 K/BB, 2.23 ERA, 0.968 WHIP, 11-2.

   I know his numbers are similar to Kevin Brown's, but is it fair that because Kevin Brown signed a bad contract and made himself disliked in the media, that Schilling should be discounted? And it's not like Brown was exactly bad, career FIP of 3.33. Schilling had a 3.23. In fact, his FIP is a little better than John Smoltz, who most people I know consider a Hall lock.

   So why is Schilling such a debate?

   Posted 1 month ago #
2. 

   tangotiger
   Member

   Among his peers (pitchers born 1962-1971), he is clearly behind the big 4: RJ, Clemens, Pedro, Maddux.

   He is in a group with Glavine, Smoltz, Ke Brown, and Mike Mussina.

   There are typically around 7-9 pitchers selected for the HOF for a 10-yr time period. The above are the top 9 starting pitchers for that time period. So, I don't think he's "borderline", but he's clearly 2nd tier (compared to his peers).

   This does not even consider relievers (Mo as a sure-fire and Hoffman as borderline).

   Posted 1 month ago #
3. 

   lee
   Member

   For the first nine seasons of his career, Schilling was 52-52, with sawtooth [up/down] effectiveness. That took him from age 21 through age 29.

   When I calculate an adjusted ERA for Schilling [to adjust for hitting climate over career], he comes out in a class with: Mussina, K, Brown, Koufax, Feller, Waddell, Eckersley, Spahn, Gomez, Warneke, Walters, Derringer, "Dutch" Leonard and Harry Brecheen [adj. ERA > 3.00 by a little bit.

   Unfortunately, Schilling's later heroics put him into a contemporary "class" of HoF eligibles that my adjusted ERA has @ <3.00, R. Johnson, Maddux, Clemens, and Pedro Martinez; and one < 2.00, Mariano Rivera. I'm guessing he should get in; but I can't see him getting in early ballot years.

   Posted 1 month ago #
4. 

   JoeR43
   Member

   Thanks Tom. I definitely agree Schilling isn't as good as Maddux, or RJ and that he's in the bottom half of the should be-HoF guys. But that being said, there should definitely be a place in the Hall for the best non-deadball / 7 ball walk (or whatever it was) K/BB'r ever.

   If I had to pick 9 pitchers from the 90's - mid 00's era group of pitchers right now to go in, it would be:

   Pedro
   Johnson
   Maddux
   Glavine
   Schilling
   Smoltz
   Rivera
   Mussina

   Hoffman...maybe. Clemens, well, I think the steroid issue is vastly overrated (look how it's perceived vs. when NFL players are busted), but there's still other areas in the "character" clause that Clemens hasn't done too well in recently. Hall of Fame voting should also retain subjectivity, just not the kind the Jon Heymans of the world champion (the "sure Blyleven had better career strikeout, walk, home run, w-l record, ERA, and playoff ERA, but Morris had IMPACT" method of selection).

   Posted 1 month ago #

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